Hello, Rogue Concerns are WTFs

[Malteser]

I disagree. I can beat most classes/specs 1v1 with killing spree. Doesn't work on paladins, only sorta works on mages. Also after my first 2 wins, the top priest on our server can beat me everytime, but well hes amazing.

Well i like combat for PVE, but at this my level I couldn't go combat PvP due to not having enough talent points to get master of deception, which imo is a must.

Can you kindly show me some Combat PVP Builds?

[Shiny]

killing someone to death

10/10. Congrats ;D

[alargehippo]

Obvious troll is obvious. And bad.

[Longview]

Hey,

First off, these forums are as troll infested and filled with QQ as the official forums. The main difference is that this forum is more open.

Rogues are pretty much top dps in end game raids. Rogues are easy to play decently in PvE. A lot of people seem to fail though, get a spreadsheet on http://elitistjerks.com/f78/ when you hit 80 to help with gemming and choosing between gear.

If you're in to PvP, practice and watching videos are key. I can recommend Woundman's, Akrios' and Reckful's videos. Warcraftmovies.com hosts most if not all relevant WoW-movies. Also, I heavily recommend watching Mute's "World of Roguecraft"-movies (the "rogue takes zero skill"-guy) and Grim's movies on WCM for some history of the rogue class (before TBC rogues were piss easy and pretty overpowered in PvP). Rogues are a shitty class to play in duels, they are also very gear dependant.

Good job researching for yourself first before asking everything here. However, a LOT of rogues are pretty terrible, don't let it go to your head.

[Eudaimonia]

Hello everyone,

I started wow not so long ago, and had a choosing a class crisis (I have alot of lvl 60s no lvl 80 XD). I decided to stick with rogue. (currently highest at lvl 69)

I used to read Offical WoW Europe Forums, until today. A friend (that invited me to WoW) told me that Wow Offical forums are full of trolls and most of the stuff you read there is QQ. He recomanded this site and said its the only one I will ever need, so here I am.

1) Before I even touched rogue, I read alot of stuff. I found these sites useful:

Shadowpanther
RogueRogue
Arenajunkies

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If there is another good site to read please tell me :3

2) the WTFs.

a) DPS At low level.

I am playing the same game as everyone else? People QQ how Rogue have low DPS in Dungoens. I admit I am new to the game and still learning, but I read alot of Rogues before I even had the game. By all means I am not bragging or anything, but how the hell is it possible for a Rogue with heirlooms (which I call Heirnoobs, since I met like only 3 decent players with heirlooms...) do half of my dps, with my crappy 10 level lower weapons/armor (Sometimes even Greens!).

Why do people QQ about DPS of Rogue at low level because they have no fan of knives? Some people on offical forums QQ how they have DPS less then tanks due to AoEing. I mean really WTF!?! I am definilty playing another game. Unless tank makes a rediclous massive pull (3 groups at once) I am always top DPS, even more then Mages. At lvl 69 I keep 1k DPS in Dungoen runs. Its not hard at all. Unless people are just epic fail or got a broken keyboard, how is it even possible? Hell I do more DPS just spamming throwing weapon then some people!


I seroiusly think I am playing a different game!

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b) PVP. By all means, I obvoiusly did not do lvl 80 PvP, not Arenas. I do alot of BG (Currently 60k HP ^^ Need to trade for Rubies so I can level Mechanic).

I use Subtley in PVP (BG). People who group with me in BG know what havoc I wreck. I am always in top 3 damage done and most killing blows, and least to 0 deaths.

Before you start saying that BG are not about damage and KB, I wish to point out that I love playing as defender in Basin and in WSG I'm the first person to go get our flag back, if he was able to run from me in middle.

In Offical forums, I read that Rogue suck in PvP, and Cataclysm will nerf them more. Is this true?

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Concerns:

I keep reading that druid kitty are way better dps then rogues, and that there is no place for rogues in raids since everyone performs better. Is this true? Is rogue really that horrible as I read?

Cataclysm; Is it true that Rogues are getting massive nerf? I did read about Cheapshot being on same Diminishing returns are other stuns, but look at this thread to see what people are saying about Rogues....

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....25767050&sid=1


Will Rogue really be bad at lvl 80 PVP?

Look bro, I don't get this post, and I'm going to say that straight out. Your're halfway telling all the "noobs" where to go to l2p, which is cool I guess, if needlessly arrogant and completely unnecessary in the contest of creating an entirely new thread - this is right up until you tell us how you aren't even to the end-game yet (level 80) and therefore have absolutely nothing useful to tell anyone as far as personal experience with rogue mechanics, namely because playing a rogue at lvl 60 in it's current state isn't much related to playing a rogue at 70 in it's current state, or at 80. (for the record, remember that patches, changes, new talents, etc, have made currentl 60 and 70 gameplay vastly different even from when those WERE the caps, so your comments dont mean much in those regards either, and since bliz balances primarily for the current endgame, whatever that is, it goes without saying that problems that do or do not exist pre-cap don't mean anything at all.)

With that being said, rogues are much more powerful relative to other classes at certain points pre-level-cap than they are at the cap in certain regards (namely pvp).

Secondly, the ability to kill another player quickly does not necessarily equal pvp viability or excellence. This is plain to see with killing spree and combat. Sure, you can burst someone down with a mostly-pve combat spec with killing spree, but if it fails, you die. Hell, even if you DO kill your target you are left so vulnerable that you might still die to his partner in 2s anyway.



Rogues DO have serious issues in PvP relative to other classes, namely that your average rogue doesn't have closing ability. You can spec shadowstep, but you hit like a wet noodle. Other than that, you're left relying on either your partner, or crippling poison. The former is an obvious vulnerability that other classes don't share, and the latter is dodgy since it requires you to have been in range of them already at some point, and it can be removed so trivialy once distance is gained by too many comps.

That's really the biggest rogue issue. Everything else is to do with numbers and comp nuances, the biggest issue is the ability to close. That, and perhaps the fact that the benefits of stealth and surprise are too greatly factored into rogue pvp on the numbers end when those benefits themselves have been greatly reduced in application (its harder than ever to catch anyone by surprise in arena environments, and doing it is less-beneficial then ever to boot for various reasons).



As for your other comments, rogues have and probably will always be among the best classes for solo world pvp and for tooling around in bgs. Maybe not for doing the most damage in a bg, but we can and will always be able to kill and live easier than most, because in your average bg, no one is paying attention to whats happening to anyone else.

For leveling, an aside, heirloom items dont mean anything one way or the other in regards to skill. They are par for the course. All of my alts are always decked in heirlooms, and I'm capable at playing all of them - but so are everyone elses, and not everyone is equally capable.

Other than that, rogue pve damage leveling isnt necessarily worse than others, its just not as stupidly easy to phone the instance in. All classes have to try if they want to perform well, but mages or hunters or whatever can probably be lazy and half asleep and look better than rogues doing the same, since they can just aoe. As for tanks, it's worth noting that tank damage was increased a LOT for wrath. I know when I leveled my paladin I was always at the top of damage done in any instance I tanked, and I did play with a fair number of capable dps players.

[Sesshou]

Well i like combat for PVE, but at this my level I couldn't go combat PvP due to not having enough talent points to get master of deception, which imo is a must.

Can you kindly show me some Combat PVP Builds?

Well 1v1 I dont really consider pvp, its just a duel. The downsides to combat are primarily that you get kited easier and die easier. Well if you end the fight within 15 seconds, you have more than enough cd's to remain mobile. You also dont have a healer that has to worry about keeping you up. This really negates the downsides against most classes.
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0xZMghd0fLqMurxRtf0fb

Thats what I use for 2s (Im mut for the other brackets). I run with a resto shaman, around of our matches (even against teams with over 2k mmr) are decided by heroism killing spree and the couple seconds after. When that fails, we just time our cc's, stuns, and interrupts around the 2nd killing spree (usually healer teams). But its mostly just for fun; 2s dont really count anymore, and I wouldnt bother with it for anything else (though I would love to try triple KS rogues after watching that vid).

Since I cant have 3 specs, I respec my pve combat spec for 2s when we play, so most duels I do with pve spec, and that usually doesnt matter, even with no MoD. Ive found I can beat over 90% of the rogues in the sewers and outside IF by standing still out of stealth and waiting for them to CS me, which I trinket and hit killing spree. For other classes, I rocket boot in to get the opener so they dont see me on the approach.

Rogues are pretty much top dps in end game raids. Rogues are easy to play decently in PvE. A lot of people seem to fail though, get a spreadsheet on http://elitistjerks.com/f78/ when you hit 80 to help with gemming and choosing between gear.

Excuse me, the warriors and mages would like to have a word with you... esp the warriors with shadowmorne.

[Longview]

Excuse me, the warriors and mages would like to have a word with you... esp the warriors with shadowmorne.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean the best dps. Unless we have terrible players in our guild, rogues are top three single target dps.

[Sesshou]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean the best dps. Unless we have terrible players in our guild, rogues are top three single target dps.

Yeah its your guild. Well to be fair I am reasonably confident that dpsing on a warrior is significantly harder than on a rogue.

[Longview]

Yeah its your guild. Well to be fair I am reasonably confident that dpsing on a warrior is significantly harder than on a rogue.

Um, now you've got me confused. Rogues are piss easy in PvE, I've written that already.

Regarding my guild, here, here, here and here are some Deathbringer Saurfang heroic25 logs. We have rogues on second-fourth place every time.

[addictedtotoads]

lol if you look up how to do everything and just spec cookie cutter and copy rotations the game is gunna get very boring very fast. but than again running a raid after i beat it... i pvp alot...

[Sahand]

I keep reading that druid kitty are way better dps then rogues

and you complain about trolls xDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Deleted]

Go Rogue or Go noob is my motto.

[deyndra]

Eh?...

[Sesshou]

Um, now you've got me confused. Rogues are piss easy in PvE, I've written that already.

Regarding my guild, here, here, here and here are some Deathbringer Saurfang heroic25 logs. We have rogues on second-fourth place every time.

What I meant by the first part was your warrior has a harder time putting out max dps so he might not be. On our last DBS, my numbers were similar to yours but our shadowmorne warrior did over 17k which is significantly more than yours. Your warrior also looks slightly better geared. So what I meant was, yeah you may be able to keep up with your warrior reasonably well but he isnt putting out his full potential dps. Heres our log for comparison:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=694&e=917

Also, I am usually #2 on dps behind the shadowmorne. We dont have any really amazing mages though, and just going from WoL, they should be ahead of rogues on most fights.