Possible Feral Bear Specs

[Hegar]

There's also zero indication of our current Primal Gore talent being implemented elsewhere, so there would be no more Lacerate crits unless it becomes baseline and Blizz just forgot to mention it or hasn't gotten around to it yet (I've only seen blue posts about resto HoT's benefiting from crits/haste).

CBA finding the blue post on it, but they've said that all dots and hots will benefit naturally from crit/haste.

[Jidders]

I think this is better.

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-5wwN9cvS7BIDEC.9dw.druid

blessing of the grove does nothing for bear.

[Deleted]

close to yours http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0IbkcbtcfzbGzhto0Ectb

took a point out of imp charge and put it in naturalist. 2% dmg seems more important to me than 15% haste for 8 secs after i charge. Would be better if you could do it every cd but if you are in a MT a boss fight what are the chances you will get it to be useful enough. Imp charge for bear seems more for Off tanking add's and trash.

I didn't saw at naturalist cuz I belive I saw in the news that naturalist no longer would incrasse your physical dmg by 10%.

Edit: I was wrong, naturalist is still going to be an awesome talent

[Auroro]

Blessing of the grove doesn't increase swipe damage? Says claw and shred.

oop!

I getting sleeply it is 12 am here.

I updated it

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-CnMo0zti0kKUP.9dw.druid

[exochaft]

Why would you drop Lacerate when the damage done by Pulverize depends on Lacerate?? I'm more curious as to how Pulverize is actually going to work (is it going to be another DoT or something?) as Endless Carnage buffs it, as well. Seems almost like an Envenom-esque ability.

I'm saying that the Pulverize tooltip says "for each Lacerate stack consumed," so it is Envenom-esque.... hence the question of how threat will work when we kill our Lacerate stack and need to reapply. With current threat values, our threat would seem very spiked needing to spend 5 GCD's to be able to maximize Pulverize every 10-16 seconds. Our current model has our threat being in the most danger while building up a Lacerate stack.

CBA finding the blue post on it, but they've said that all dots and hots will benefit naturally from crit/haste.

They said most DoTs/HoTs will benefit, and then they referenced some passive DoT's... I just don't like assuming, because everyone knows what it means to assume! ;D I'd say 99% sure they'll have all our bleed DoT's crit, though, even though it was not directly stated "Lacerate/Rip/Rake DoTs will crit innately."

[deadman80]

I'm saying that the Pulverize tooltip says "for each Lacerate stack consumed," so it is Envenom-esque.... hence the question of how threat will work when we kill our Lacerate stack and need to reapply. With current threat values, our threat would seem very spiked needing to spend 5 GCD's to be able to maximize Pulverize every 10-16 seconds. Our current model has our threat being in the most danger while building up a Lacerate stack.

I want to know the CD on Pulverize already! lol >_<;;; If it is a very short CD, then doing a short stack of Lacerates (2-3) then Pulverize may be viable as well. Even with 0 stacks, it looks like it will hit quite hard, so I can't imagine it will have no CD sadly ;_; Otherwise, we might end up doing nothing but spamming it on single targets :-/ (And I'm sure there will be some players who would do that even if they knew that hitting other buttons would be a big threat increase just so they can see some big numbers fly up their screen.) I'm betting it will be around 12-15 sec so that we have a choice between refreshing a 5 stack of Lacerate VS blowing it up with a big Pulverize, but we will still need to let it tick for a while in most cases before consuming it if that is what we want to do.

... SOOOOOOOO much new info to speculate with...... I'm happy :3

[exochaft]

I want to know the CD on Pulverize already! lol >_<;;; If it is a very short CD, then doing a short stack of Lacerates (2-3) then Pulverize may be viable as well. Even with 0 stacks, it looks like it will hit quite hard, so I can't imagine it will have no CD sadly ;_; Otherwise, we might end up doing nothing but spamming it on single targets :-/ (And I'm sure there will be some players who would do that even if they knew that hitting other buttons would be a big threat increase just so they can see some big numbers fly up their screen.) I'm betting it will be around 12-15 sec so that we have a choice between refreshing a 5 stack of Lacerate VS blowing it up with a big Pulverize, but we will still need to let it tick for a while in most cases before consuming it if that is what we want to do.

I've been leaning towards Pulverize not necessarily being part of a "it's off cooldown, push the button!" rotation, too. Honestly, when I first saw that it consumes the bleed effect, my immediate reaction was "zomg bear pvp execute move." ...tells you how much I love running around in BGs in tanking gear.

When you look at the damage done by the base ability (let alone higher ranks), it completely destroys Maul's damage at lvl 80, and the talent tree allows you to get it well before lvl 80. Beyond that, we run into a problem.... if maintaining a 5-stack of Lacerate will remain the optimal threat goal, Pulverize will be severely situational for PvE tanking. At best, it'd end up being an emergency threat tool, but you'd still have to re-stack Lacerate to 5, possibly risking the loss of threat again. Basically, the threat of Pulverize has to be greater than the cost of re-stacking Lacerate and lost threat from moves you would've used to have a positive effecting on PvE tanking. Perhaps when they change the Feral Instinct talent, it will somehow alter our use of Pulverize (though I have a sneaking suspicion it will boost Swipe damage on bleeding targets and drop the improved stealth portion that also disappeared in the rogue talent trees). In the end, I forsee that the buff from Pulverize is designed to be something equivalent to Savage Roar: it's a buff you want to maintain at 100% uptime.

Just had a quick afterthought: it seemed vaguely similar to Obliterate, in which it consumes debuffs you manually apply (untalented of course). So... Blizz might hit this two ways: created/modify a talent so the bleeds don't disappear or create a new glyph that lets the bleeds remain. From the looks of the talent tree so far and what Blizz has said about glyphs, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Glyph of Pulverize on the horizon.

And I agree: I like being able to talk about something on these forums other than the dead horses beaten on a dailly basis. My shoes were starting to smell like horse carcass.

[hellghast]

I have made an interesting hybrid build that includes all essential talents for CAT and BEAR. Could it work with full agi gear as DPS/TANK spec just with changing form? ;D

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-5kAaoAWN21B0F.9dw.druid

[Auroro]

Here is my idea of how the Feral Tank basic build should look like: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0cfRcbtcfzbGzbto0E0x
(I found a bug that Improved Mangle have 3 points in the talent tree, so I left it at two point the way that wowhead tell us)

Resto: Feral Tank Talents
Since we lost the Improved Mark of the Wild, we will have to put five point in Furor, unless Blizzard add some Bear Spells in Blessing of the Grove.

Perseverance: A must have for Feral Tank. 10% spell damage taken reduction is too good to pass up.

Naturalist: Also a must have for Feral Tank, we gain 10% more damage boost to any of our attack. This is needed for threat control.

Ok, then we are off to the Feral Tree.

Feral: Feral Tank Talents

Sharpened Claws: Nothing to said, it is very helpful with threat control.

Ferocity: Help with rage problem that we might be having in Cataclysm.

Thick Hide: Must have for Feral Tank

Feral Swiftness: Must Have for Feral Tank, 4% Dodge is no laughing matter, your healers will thank you.

Predatory Instincts: Good for threat control and make the Savage Defense pop out more.

Feral Charge: To get to the target faster before the DPS get to that target.

Improved Feral Charge: Shorter attack speed after we reach the target which can help with threat control

Fury Swipes: More threat control and faster way to gain more rage

Primal Fury: Again more ways to gain more rage

Heart of the Wild: Must have since it is this talent is where we gain our Stamina boost

Survival Instincts: A "Oh $%^&" button, and a must have for tanking.

Natural Reaction: Like I said in Feral Swiftness, your healer will thank you for having more Dodge % and another way to gain rage

Survival of the Fittest: Must have, this is what defense rating is being turn into for tanking classes

Endless Carnage: Will help a lot once we gain the Pulverize Spell

Leader of the Pack: This is the Feral Druid's Aura and it give 5% critical chance to both ranges and melees

Improved Leader of the Pack: It help your healer a lot and Kitty will not grab it.

Protector of the Pack: Again the healer would love you, 12% damage taken reduction is too good to pass up. and you gain 6% damage boost as well.

Infected Wounds: It help a lot when the DPS are too busy dealing with the adds or second boss and you just slow down the boss attack speed which can help the healers as well.

Mangle: Nothing to said but threat control

Improved Mangle: Again threat control

Rend and Tear: We are gain more bleed spells as a bear, therefore we are the bleeding tank

Pulverize: The new bleed spell for bears, I would said we have at least 3 bleed spells, Pulverize (1), Lacerate (2), and Mangle (3).

Berserk: Nothing to said about this spell however it is a must have.

Other talent: Feral Tank

King of the Jungle: Going to be just kitty talent since we will drop T10 in Cata unless blizzard keep the T10 4p bonus for bears. It is a bad idea to enrage during a boss fight since we will be hit with that armor reduction. So I turn it down. Can't get Primal Madness as well.

Master Shapeshifter: Still give 4% damage boost, it is a nice way for threat control as well. I will be taking this talent. Also Omen would be taken as well
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0cfRcbtcfzbGzbto0Ectb

What you gain from the talent above?

Maul:
34% damage boost
10 rage price
15% Crit
6% Attack Power Boost
Infected Wounds Proc
20% more damage done when the target is bleeding

Mangle:
34% damage boost
5 second cooldown
15% Crit
6% Attack Power Boost
Infected Wounds Proc
15 rage price

Swipe:
14% damage boost
15% Crit
6% Attack Power Boost
15 rage price

Lacerate:
14% damage boost
15% Crit
6% Attack Power Boost

Pulverize:
14% damage boost
6 second longer (10 second without Endless Carnage)
15% Crit
6% Attack Power Boost

Feral Charge (Bear):
14% damage boost
Melee haste boost up by 30% after you use Feral Charge (Bear) for 8 seconds (none if you do not take Improved Feral Charge)
15% Crit
6% Attack Power Boost

Stat: White attack and Defense
14% damage boost
15% Crit
6% Attack Power Boost
10% spell damage taken reduction
10% Dodge
Crit immune (6%)
43% Armor boost
10% Stamina boost
3 rage when dodge
5 rage when Crit
A chance to gain a free attack when Omen proc
12% to attack the same target twice
100% to gain 10 rage when shapeshifting into bear

I am sure that sometime we will be fight for which one is better MSS vs KotJ. However we have to wait until Blizzard show us the T11 set bonus so that we make a choice. Without T10 I would said MSS is better to tank.

The only thing that could fix the damage output for swipe is to give up both Omen and Improved Feral Charge, here is the other talent with swipe friendly: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0IfocbtcfzbGzbto0Ecxb. Then Swipe would have 44% damage boost for a price of Omen proc and 30% haste boost.

[getefix]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-CnMWdXFHPxyh2.9dw.druid
^-- this build has everything you need and still has 8 points spare

I guess we don't really know how rage management is going to work in Cata, but I think dropping the CD of FFF by 5 seconds is a better choice than reducing the cost of mangle, maul, and swipe. I guess that will be something to figure out in the beta.

[arel00]

Personally, I'm going with something like this:

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-mD8Qc7kV4SraCC.9dw.druid

Of course, much is still subject to changes, so we'll see at the later stages.

[Findus707]

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-CnMWMLg6MKi3L.9dw.druid found that best

[Seraphk]

Many of you have decent builds, but many are forgetting about Predatory Strikes -- It's no longer exclusively Cat Form & 10% extra crit damage will go a long way with threat when you're tanking.

Imp Feral Charge was awesome in Alpha when it was 30% DAMAGE. They nerfed it to 30% Haste. Of course, who didn't see that coming right? It might be worth one point if you can find one. Maul will no longer be an "on next attack" ability... These abilities do not exist anymore. Thus, increased attack speed on swings will have much less benefit than before. However, it'll lightly influence Savage Defense procs along with a slightly higher OOC proc possibility for the first 8 seconds of fights.

Feral Aggression may actually be important for Bears. All I can say without breaking the NDA, Feral Faerie Fire is changing & will be something that'll you want to apply multiple times to get the full benefits plus it's duration is changing. Now, if you reduce the CD by 5 seconds, you'll get this benefit a lot more quickly while generating more threat at a quicker pace. Though, I do feel that in the end, 5 points may be too large of an investment. It'll be something theorycrafters will have to get ahold of -- Though, I will say that it generates significantly more threat.

In regards to Pulverize, it does not have a CD. The "CD" is the amount of time it takes to apply Lacerate stacks to use it again. That said -- There is a Glyph in Alpha that will compliment this ability greatly & allow you to obtain the benefits more often. I do not believe it's possible to perform a good tanking rotation & maintain the 10% crit buff at full up-time. However, you can keep it up more consistently with the glyph. That said -- The ability hits harder than Mangle at 2 or 3 stacks, imagine how hard it hits at 5 stacks.

This should alleviate some of the problems a few of you are making in your builds or create more. All I can say is that Brutal Impact isn't important now that we are getting an actual interrupt & do not need Bash up every opportunity to interrupt. KotJ will be useful if they take T10 set bonus and just make it baseline. Imp Mangle has, and will even more so with all our new abilities, be lack luster as a tanking talent & the only reason to get it was so that you could replace Lacerate with a Mangle in your tanking rotation.

The best build I can come up with at the moment: http://www.wowtal.com/#k=-CnMoiG7KQs8zl.9dw.druid It will likely change based on whether Feral Aggression prove to be important when theorycrafters get ahold of it. Don't get me wrong, I love Master Shapeshifter's 4% extra physical damage, however.. That's essentially 5 points for 4% increased damage since you have to get Natural Shapeshifter first. I'd much prefer using those points in utility abilities. If they make T10 enrage benefits baseline, I may even take my 5 points outta Resto & put them over into Feral for KotJ / Primal Madness -- It'll allow you to Enrage + Zerk into an endless onslaught of high damage Mangles.

Also, getefix brings up a valid consideration. If you are not feeling rage starved while tanking, taking Feral Aggression over Ferocity may be viable. That said, you all will eventually see why you'd consider it with the change to FFF... Though, I don't think I'd personally do it because I hate being rage starved & Swipe spam adds up to a ton of Rage saved with Ferocity.

Overall, I'm not quite sure how we're going to manage our tanking rotation now. They're making it so that we're gonna have so many more GCDs being triggered, especially since Maul will no longer be "on next hit". That said -- Bear tanking is looking a lot more interesting.

[Jathro]

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0ZixIfRcbtcfz0hzhto0E0t

is what I was thinking. No unnecessary Imp LotP, plenty of surivial and threat talents. Anxious to see more details on Pulverize and the new glyphs.

EDIT: Fixed link. Wowhead's talent generator seems to be working more reliably than what's on MMO currently.

[Hinalover]

I don't see why people underplay Imp LotP. The talent is a useful talent to have. You crits have a chance to heal yourself for about 4k health. More self-healing and less need for a healer to heal you. I'm supplying a lvl 77 build that picks up all the needed talents with 8 points people can place wherever they want.

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0c...bGzhto0E0t:nz0

People can put points into Feral Agression for damage mitigation or Natural/Master Shapeshifter for threat increase. I chose not to put points into Shredding Attacks because of the lackluster of dropping Lacerate cost from 18 rage to 16 rage. I also did not put points into Feral Instincts since they have mentioned that they are not doing as many AOE pulls. Plus it's a situational ability in Cataclysm. Imp FC would be extremely useful for bears on initial pick up threat since it gives them a haste buff.

[Auroro]

I think this when we get different talent between bears: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0cfocbtcfzbGzZ0E0x.

If we do not have any rage problem in Cataclysm, then I would be willing to take http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0ZbxcfocbtcfzbGzZ0E0x.

For people who think we need our AOE boost as well, I think this might work: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0ZbxIfRcbtcfzbGz0to0Ecxb or http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#0Zi0IfRcbtcfzbGz0to0Ecxb

[exochaft]

I don't see why people underplay Imp LotP. The talent is a useful talent to have. You crits have a chance to heal yourself for about 4k health. More self-healing and less need for a healer to heal you.

Imp LotP is usually underplayed since most people don't step outside their own role and see it from a different angle or situation.

A few factual* statements made from Blizz blue posts: Blizz intends to make healer mana an issue again, so healers can't spam heals while watching their mana bars still go up. Also, our healthbars will be inflated even higher than we see them now, so that extra 4% HP will be much bigger as time goes on. If I recall, there was even a Blizz post stating that it might not be optimal to try to top off people (specifically tank) at all times or you'll go have a high risk of going OOM.

If you don't see the value of Imp LotP, it's along the lines of saying things like "Don't judge light, it's all overheals anyways.... while we're at it, don't drop mana spring totem, it's so small compared to our mana pools who would notice it, right?" Even by current standards, I don't see many healers saying "GDI, I told you not to heal yourself, that's my job... omg, you just did NOT use that healthstone!!... if you use Frenzied Regeneration one more time, so help me I'll spam smite til I'm OOM, since you think you're so special healing yourself a bit!" Okay, okay, it's a little extreme, but the point remains: every little bit helps. Cataclysm changes seem to be boiled down to making our resources precious across the board compared to where they are now, so I'll take freebies along the way.

* Factual = Blizz made the statements and are intending them to happen, my own disclaimer

[Bob002]

Imp LotP is usually underplayed since most people don't step outside their own role and see it from a different angle or situation.

I think a lot of it depends on the rest of your guild makeup as well. If you're taking several ret or prot paladins to the raid, they provide a similar buff.

[exochaft]

Also, getefix brings up a valid consideration. If you are not feeling rage starved while tanking, taking Feral Aggression over Ferocity may be viable. That said, you all will eventually see why you'd consider it with the change to FFF... Though, I don't think I'd personally do it because I hate being rage starved & Swipe spam adds up to a ton of Rage saved with Ferocity

Overall, I'm not quite sure how we're going to manage our tanking rotation now. They're making it so that we're gonna have so many more GCDs being triggered, especially since Maul will no longer be "on next hit". That said -- Bear tanking is looking a lot more interesting.

Making a separate post since it's a completely different point from my previous post. I'm preeeeetty sure Maul might end up being off the global GCD. Not sure where I'm getting this idea, it's hard to find some of this information since it was mostly alpha leaked info.

Concerning FFF, I think we'll need to wait for more information before we can make a semi-informed judgement. As it stands, Blizz wants to separate AoE and single-target tanking abilities, as in you'll use one set of abilities for AoE and a completely different set for single-target. That being said... 5/5 Feral Aggression in Cataclysm + current FFF threat = spamming FFF every 1 second > spamming swipe every 1.5 seconds for single-target threat. This would radically change how we deal with things now... no-cost spammable threat move while we auto-attack for rage to Mangle/Maul/Lacerate/Pulverize... but I'm not sure if Blizz will go there yet because it seems too "spammy," since that was the major motivation to the Thrash/Swipe AoE tanking change.

I personally cannot come up with a talent tree yet until I really understand how the tanking rotation will ultimately become, because there are a few key talents that could adversely affect our assumptions based on current mechanics.

I think a lot of it depends on the rest of your guild makeup as well. If you're taking several ret or prot paladins to the raid, they provide a similar buff.

Even so, there should be zero complaining about extra sources of healing. With a pally judging Light, great, more heals to make healer life easier. Imp LotP / Judgement of Light / Healing Stream Totem is icing on the cake... sure, some people like their cake plain and boring, but I love my icing! Regardless, if you don't lose anything important by providing an extra source of heals, there should be no reason not to provide it.

Also... no update on paladin changes yet, either. Paladins seem to be the target of mass revamps as of lately (I'm still a fan of the judgment/seal system that was in place most of BC over the current one... I thought it was more fun and exciting, but that's another story ), and Blizz is taking their time on releasing specific info with that class. For all we know, those judgments could be long gone or operating in a completely different way.

[Paskgotsheal]

So anyone else think we're gonna have to start out tank and spank fights with feral charge from bear form?