Stance Dancing Sucks, and so does Spell Reflect.

[skaarrj]

I am talking about pvp here.

It really sucks when I have to stance swap to use another ability. I do not enjoy doing it because I lose all but 25 of my resource, it takes a GCD, and it just feels so clunky. I think the only time I am satisfied that stance swaping was a good thing is when I switch to defensive stance and disarm someone. It's a very effective ability and i gain a tremendous advantage for doing so. But that's the only ability worth stance dancing for it seems.

Spell Reflect sucks. Everyone is always using instant casts or spells with such quick castings. Not only that, but I need to equip my shield in order to use it. It seems like too many GCD's spent for a ability that really doesn't change the tide of a battle in your favor. Lets face it. Disarming someone gives you a great advantage. It won't win the game for you, but it gives you a great advantage. Spell Reflect does not.

For Spell Reflect to give me a great advantage, what it would have to do upon a successful damaging spell reflect is to silence the target for 5 seconds.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if the abilities that I'm supposed to use in a different stance are good enough, I'd look forward more to stance dancing. But they kinda suck. And as of right now I don't really have any reason to stance dance to arms from fury. (Retaliation sucks since they graphic was added, overpower sucks for fury). Maybe make Overpower hit with both weapons?

[Shadowtrans]

Wait wat?
There is even a Blue post about this. Good warriors do them right. Bad warriors just complain.

[skaarrj]

I saw the post, and both disagree and agree with the content within. Nevertheless, this is my opinion.

[Dick Titty]

What is this I don't even?

[Jiry]

Not only that, but I need to equip my shield in order to use it. It seems like too many GCD's spent for a ability that really doesn't change the tide of a battle in your favor. Lets face it.

Welcome to macro's, there's only one GCD needed for popping Spell Reflect, stance-switching only gives you a 1s CD on switching to another stance, it doesn't affect the GCD.

Also the order in which you do it alters the time needed, start by switching to Def. Stance, equip sword & board, pop Spell Reflect, easy as that and you only need 2 GCDs of which one goes off while switching stance...

[Cathercy]

You obviously aren't very good, sir.

And after reading the last paragraph. Are you pvping Fury?

[Amaranth]

Stancedancing is one of the only ways to balance warriors anymore. Remember the TG nerf? That shit sucked. Remember the Lolstorm nerf? That shit sucked, too. In fact, remember everything else that warriors have ever been able to do that got nerfed? Yep. Sucked.

If they take out stancedancing, it's going to open up a whole slew of doors to nerf everything else we do that's cool. If you don't like having to pop Battle stance to burst a bubble, go roll priest. If you don't want to put on a shield for spellreflect, then don't use it. Macros aren't difficult; just go look on EJ if you need help.

Warrior PVP isn't easy, man. Sure, we can two-shot almost anyone with enough ArP, but without some kind of balance the game's just broken.

[Tycho]

If removing stance-dancing (for the most part) caused some rebalancing, that would be better in the long-run. Personally I'd rather see stances boost/enhance their respective abilities, rather than enable/disable them.

[Doylez]

If you don't like totems shaman is not the class for you.
If you don't like shapeshifting druid is not the class for you.
If you don't like handling a pet hunter and warlock is not the class for you.
If you don't like stance dance warrior is no the class for you.

[Tycho]

If you don't like totems shaman is not the class for you.
If you don't like shapeshifting druid is not the class for you.
If you don't like handling a pet hunter and warlock is not the class for you.
If you don't like stance dance warrior is no the class for you.

The other items are largely superficial don't impact the game much (yes they matter, but differently). There is no skill a Shaman *can't use* if a particular totem isn't down. A Warlock can still cast Curses if his imp dies. While all skills can't be used in all forms for Druids, shapeshifting is "free" in 99% of the cases.

[Restrained]

I would say its the enormous swap time to do
Weapon swap+stance
cast the ability
then back.

Other classes can pop their defensive moves on demand and not lose pressure over it.

[SamuraiJakkass86]

Druids get a talent for generating threat instantly when swapping stances - this may be an obsolete concept in Cata due to having ours shouts work like Horn of Winter (i.e. generating us some rages), but if not - the I would suggest giving us a talent for generating rage upon stance swap, not just transferring it.

[Lucky_]

Classes strengths and weaknesses
What you're calling a "discrepancy in logic between classes" we call "different classes work differently." It's very common for players examining weaknesses (perceived or engineered) of their class to look to other classes and say "Hmm. They don't have the same weakness. That's not fair." But it's more than likely they have other weaknesses to compensate just as you have other strengths. Almost any time you bring up an example of other classes working differently, we're going to respond "perfect." I realize that can be frustrating since looking at other classes provides easy examples of abilities or mechanics you don't have, but that's honestly the whole point.


Straight from the homepage of mmo-champion. Ghostcrawler really landed a hole-on-one there.

[Restrained]

Straight from the homepage of mmo-champion. Ghostcrawler really landed a hole-on-one there.

That coming from the guy that said


"If anything I'd argue the lack of warriors dominating the upper echelons of PvP has more to do with their lack of control, not their susceptibility to it. "-GC

When he says shit like this, its hard to take him seriously.

[Wartortle]

I think warriors are fine with the stances , Arms warriors can put insane pressure! and nowadays you cant spell reflect out of reaction , you have to predict it, its impossible to reflect a lava burst from a haste gemmed shammy, you have to know its comming, yes they can just stop casting,but if you know he is gonna fake cast then you dont use your spell reflect. and this might buy your healer some time to heal you. same with pummel , you have to predict it. But i hope blizz changes spell reflect so that you can reflect spells mid air, like mage can IB death coil that is mid air.

[shokter]

The other items are largely superficial don't impact the game much (yes they matter, but differently). There is no skill a Shaman *can't use* if a particular totem isn't down. A Warlock can still cast Curses if his imp dies. While all skills can't be used in all forms for Druids, shapeshifting is "free" in 99% of the cases.

A shaman cannot cast flame nova w out a fire totem being down...resto druids cannot cast attacks in tree...while i know you are talking about pvp applications and these are maybe not as annoying as having to equip and unequip a shield they are nonetheless true. Just l2macro if stance dancing/shield swapping is too cumbersome for you.

[lolcantdothat]

Funny how Dk's can do all of their abilities without switching stances(presences), but warriors have to do it with a weapon macro as well.

Oh but in the blue post he said he didnt want warriors to have it easy, but for dk's that's fine. WTF kind of logic is that?

[tankytanktank123]

wow he pvp's as fury...but yeah stance dancing to spellreflect is too clunky.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

you need to change stance to spell reflect? D:

[Acheros]

Nothing wrong with spellreflect tbh, in 2v2 I can almost always reflect cyclone's, you just have to be quick that's all.