Some major reasons why tanks are Elitests in heroics

[Ivpiv]

This is like in Soccer.. Tanks are like goalkeepers.. Its NEVER the goalkeeper(tank)s fault.. Even if the goalkeeper fails like green from England at the world cup(or like X tank you know)its never his fault..

Why cause you want a confident goalkeeper(tank) if you tell him he´s shit he will get nervous and make shitty decisions and therefor mistakes.. You want a confident goalkeeper(tank)

Tip you goalkeepers(tanks)

[evan_s]

My tanking experience has only been very recent. I just leveled my DK up have been tanking on him for the last 2 weeks or so as an off spec to make getting badges and gear quicker. I started taking after getting to my early 70's and getting tired of the queue when trying to get in the random daily for the 2 badges. After hitting 80 I spent the triumph badges I had gathered up on some tanking gear and picked up some relatively cheap crafted and boe drops to get some basic gear and started doing instances.

I've gotten enough drops to get geared up to the point of having successfully tanked all the 5 man instances on heroic. What I've noticed is that tanking instances is much more stressful and requires more focus than dps or healing. On my shaman, who is typically healing, I can earthshield the tank, throw out some occasional heals and dps if I feel like it and everything goes well and it's relatively relaxing no matter what the group is like. On my warlock I can ae on larger pulls or just blow stuff up on smaller pulls and it's relatively simple and relaxing. On my tank it's completely different. I'm constantly looking at the pulls to figure out how to best round up the mobs. Having to make sure I hold aggro over the trigger happy dps. If I'm lazy about it things start going poorly and the group is no fun for anyone and this is just in a relatively good group.

Then you get those groups that make you want to pull your hair our and scream. The dps that pulls extra mobs for me while all my runes are on CD. The dps that all each target a different mob and go all out single target dps and then blow up when I can't keep aggro on all three mobs. Or the warrior how charges past me and whirlwinds the mobs before I even get to them.

So far tanking seems to require much more focus and attention than any other role even in the best of situation and is downright infuriating in the worst situations which is very different from other roles in heroics.

[The Som]

I've been in the tanking position before, and I know what it's like to be frustrated by clearly incompetent DPS (..can't claim I'm not one). But from a DK DPS standpoint:

I know my role to the best of my ability. Wait for the tank to aggro. Strangulate/Mind Freeze/Death Grip casters/healers if necessary or if even possible (due to immunity). If necessary, I'll use Death Grip/Dark Command to pull a mob that attacked the healer and into the Tank's area of Aggro. Since I'm Unholy, I'll control my Ghoul as necessary, even focusing it on different targets as needed (or Death Pacting it if necessary, say I'm sub-tanking or the Healer OOMs during a fight). If the tank dies (for whatever reason), I can switch to Frost Presence and try to sub-tank long enough to get the current mob down without wiping. If the healer dies, I can hopefully revive them with my Gnomish Army Knife.

While I may not do the highest DPS, I try my best to support the tank and the group. And, that's what the DPS role is supposed to do. DPS does their job 'Right' = Happy Tank.

Then, there's the Recount stereotype. If more DPS paid attention to Threat Generated (or had a concept of Threat to begin with--more of a problem at lower levels.) rather than DPS Generated, maybe there would be less of a problem the Tank-DPS relationship.

Sure, I have Recount, but I'm not a "Recount Whore" that has to post it to Party Chat after a fight just to make a point. I'm more concerned about how much threat I'm generating. I'd rather not pull a boss off the tank, especially since he/she's the one in tanking gear and probably funneling the more important heals. Sure, I'll lose track of my threat generation every once-in-a-while, and some mobs/bosses just aggro random players, so it happens, but if it means I have to sacrifice DPS to stay alive and continue doing damage, I will.

Just my two cents taken from experience.

Then you get those groups that make you want to pull your hair our and scream. The dps that pulls extra mobs for me while all my runes are on CD. The dps that all each target a different mob and go all out single target dps and then blow up when I can't keep aggro on all three mobs. Or the warrior how charges past me and whirlwinds the mobs before I even get to them.

I feel your pain.

[Evirx]

I read maybe the first 4 posts buuuuuuuuuut:

I tab in and out of game not only when I'm DPS but tanking as well.
I spam very few keys not only when I'm DPS but tanking as well.
I talk to lots of people not only when I'm DPS but tanking as well.

See the pattern? All these QQ threads make me laugh. ^_^

you must tab really fast to tank things and alt tab at the same time in a heroic that or your a bad tank because you would pull get enough threat for the mobs to die tab out 10 seconds later the mobs are dead

whats next the group waits on you? or you tab back after less than 10 seconds of w/e you are looking at?

even bosses last less than 25 seconds now

thats the only thing I find interesting from your post.

[msdos]

i play so good in 5 mans it makes everyone around me play better. like this one time i was doing some 5 man with a guildy tanking.

he PMs me and goes, "wow, you're number 1 on dps and you're healing, lol"

when i come across elitist players, i play so good that everyones attention is diverted to me playing and they try to challenge themselves and the group just to see what i'll do next, i'm like Kobe on the floor.

i suggest everyone else play the same.

[Praxius1]

I have a level 40 odd warrior spec'd protection, and even at that level, healers are the asses... everytime they say "MB OMG" I say "Ok I'll just pull this 1 mob while you drink so we can go a bit faster" most of the time, no answer, I pull said mob, and the healer starts healing me while Im at full! And then they go "OMFG FREEKIN RETARD TANK" when I clearly said "I'll pull this one mob WHILE you drink" and was at full health even if he hadn't healed me.

[Nayt]

I tank, and as a tank I've gotten compliments such as "Wow, your the most patient tank I've ever had". Why, do you ask? Because I took the entire 30 seconds required to explain the first boss of FoS. One player in our group had never ran it & spoke up, I explained it. I then played my role by kiting the boss away from that player when they got their soul sucked.

Most tanks are elitist because they only know how to tank when they have the full support of other players who know what they are doing; they usually fail misreably when things don't go "as per usual". Being a good player has little to do with knowing which button to press, but more to do with "why" you press it & being able to work that into the situation. Being able to alter events in your favor after a situation turns south .. that's being a good player.

[Thewong]

After being a dps/healer over the years i made my dk a tank to see what is was like. I now understand the frustration of it. I agree wirh op on some parts, its rare i find a dps that tricks/ md's or attacks my target even when marked.

[Fenixdown]

Did I say I was good?

But if your some how offended by this post then I feel sorry for the people you play with TBQH.

Leads me to belive you actually fall into one of the catagories

It could mean you think the 2 words SOME and MOST mean ALL. IDK

You're absolutely right. In heroics, I do all of the following things.

Talk
Alt/tab
jump all over the screen and throw snowballs at bosses

The difference is, sir, that in doing all of this I'm also bubbling the group, keeping PoM and Renew on the tank, and dots up on the boss. Nobody's even coming REMOTELY close to dying. Because it's a freaking heroic and healing it is a joke. Put me in ICC10 heroic, I step up to the plate and take my duty seriously. Put me in a raid, I'll do my job. Put me on an undergeared alt, I'll go the extra mile to do what I have to. Put me on my hunter and give me a tank that fails at threat generation (probably tanks like you), and I'll Misdirect every 30 seconds and Volley on trash since you can't do your damn job yourself.

I know how to play my characters, and I know the difference between what's important and what isn't. A heroic? Not important. When a bubble absorbs 8k damage, my options are simple. Stand there and stare at the screen mindlessly and hope someone MIGHT take damage...or wait for someone to take some damage and react accordingly.

Maybe you just need some more gear and stop sucking at tanking, dude. If the healers you get are so fail ALL the time...there's only one common element to that equation. You. Time to look in the mirror, pal, and see what the real problem is.

[Harthmut]

Oh i've had veeeeeeery much bad tanks.
I can understand that, when i come into a heroic instance with my over 9000 gear score and there is a freshly dinged lvl 80 tank that, maybe, doesn't know how to flip the switches right or simply is outgeared by me and the other dps. That's okay, i just slow it down then.
But when i for myself join a heroic instance with my own freshly dinged paladin (happened to me 3 days ago) and do embarassing 2800 dps and the TANK, a warrior, who got mostly equipped by icc 10 can't handle my aggro (true story, happened in Cot Strat trash packs), that's where i can't hold back to push the votekick button.
Thank god the druid healer had a tank spec, the tank had a dps spec and the shadow priest got a heal spec.
After the switch it was okay.

[Organoth]

There is one person who has no control over their aggro and that's the healer. With that said though healers do need to learn to not heal while standing next to the tank and to not spam over heals next to a mob before the mob is pulled by the tank. If the healer stands back a bit I can easily grab a mob that attempts to go after them. If the healer is right next to me he is going to get smacked in the face by the mob and there is nothing I can do to prevent that. If you stand close enough for a mob to hit you, expect to get hit.

Everything stated above about the DPS is true. Now DK tanks are not the greatest in game but guess what? I'm a tank, you are not, tanks are in very short supply in this game and that's why I rolled one. While I don't think I am the greatest thing since Sliced Bread you would do well to not piss me off in a group since I am doing a job you are either unwilling or incapable of doing yourself. No other class has double resource mechanics like DKs do. I have to manage both Runes and Runic Power for using my talents. For 5 mans I am a self-healing Blood tank because the rotation is much, much simpler for AoE threat and pulls and I it allows me to not have to rely on the healer as much incase they are lazy or bad. That said as a Blood Tank I have 3, just 3 AoE abilities, my DnD, my Blood Boil and Pestilence. DnD and Blood Boil always get spammed first on a group pull, then I get out my dieases and spread them with Pestilence. If I have to start off the pull tying to pull mobs off the rtard DPS that attacked them before I died everything goes to hell and ofcourse it's the tanks fault.

If I see DPS contantly attacking and spamming AoE on mobs before I do I warn them. "Attack shit before I do and you die". It's not me being a jerk, it's just the way the game works and I am going to do what I can to keep the rest of the group alive and not the jerk-off who can't be bothered to attack the same target as the tank. Which 99% of the time is always the caster first in group pulls because guess what? 99% of the time it's the caster that needs to die first for various reasons. With my main being a Hunter I learned early on to always attack what the tank attacks. Having the tank as my set-focus for my MD macro I always just attacked his target, which is what ppl are supposed to do but can never be bothered with.

When running a 5 man I don't need to see your noob-fall hit a group of mobs before my DnD does nor do I need to see it when we are only attacking 1-2 mobs. No matter what class you are never pass your tank, if I stop you stop. The typical person in a 5 man doesn't bother to watch for pats or anything like that but as a tank I sure as hell do. I don't even care if your a rogue and you want to stealth up to the mobs, never walk past your tank. By being the person who approches a mob first it helps to ensure I am the one they aggro. I don't want to drop my DnD before getting there as it will aggro the group and they will run OUT of the DnD to get to me making it's threat useless. Stay the hell back, don't attack mobs before I do and don't attack mobs that I'm not attacking. Follow those basic rules and things will go much smoother and I'm sure almost every tank would agree.

[Cyno]

A good tank understand they're the most important part of the group (you can argue with this, but it's true. Deal with it.), but doesn't abuse it. At the same time, they're not afraid to enforce the fact if one of the other members gets uppity and decides to be an asshole.

Not always the case for example I do my daily on my priest with two good friends both equally geared a ret pally and unholy dk in the case we have a slow or under geared tank I just tell the two of them to do their own thing at which point they'll start pulling and tanking packs themselves which results in clean six to eight minute clears. Though in my case I have two +30k hp plate dps pulling over 9k dps so nothing ever lasts long enough to do any real damage.

To the op the tank may get to pick the pace he wants to run but if the healer doesn't like it they'll let him die.

[Clicheman]

heroics are a joke.

[Moonsylvana]

I agree with you OP, especially

The DPS forgot that they can do stuff besides DPS.

CS/kick & stuff, use 'em !

Oh and,as said before, lots of sour attitudes here, that's just, wow.

[lorrel]

you must tab really fast to tank things and alt tab at the same time in a heroic that or your a bad tank because you would pull get enough threat for the mobs to die tab out 10 seconds later the mobs are dead

whats next the group waits on you? or you tab back after less than 10 seconds of w/e you are looking at?

even bosses last less than 25 seconds now

thats the only thing I find interesting from your post.

I usually play in windowed mode unless it's something that requires more attention like raiding. With a Paladin I can usually press 3 buttons and do something else while auto-attacking and not have threat issues.

Also, it's not like I'm tabbing out to read the bible or something huge. It's usually changing music or replying to an IM conversation. Granted, it's much easier when you're a DPS but it's not like tanking a heroic is difficult either.

[Vile]

Because most of the world of warcraft players including the ones reading this arent that good at the game including the tanks...

It is rather amusing that you start by insulting "most" of the WoW players and so many others here, yet you choose to use this medium as your soapbox to tell us your sob story.

I tank plenty of heroics in my 264 ICC gear, however, I have enough common sense to realize that, plenty of others there generally don't care about the random that much, and are there just to get their daily over with. This doesn't mean "most" wow players are bad and it doesn't mean I need to go around and be elitist about it - it is what it is and if you think you can change the attitude of so many players out there, good luck with that.

I'm also one of those tanks that will generally do achievements for people, explain a fight if needed and actually listen to the group if they want to do an extra boss, skip them, etc instead of just deciding everything myself, because I am so damn good and need to flex my epeen. I get the idea that you are not this type of tank, but instead one of those people who thinks he's so damn good, but in reality is probably far from this. You seem like the person that makes the rest of us good players with good attitudes look bad.

[omglazor]

I just press buttons and watch big numbers. What was this thread about?

[Deleted]

Spell reflected the wall of text to you; back to where it belongs.

[Anowyn]

As a geared paladin tank, I rarely experience any of these players. I honestly do not know why tanks come on complaining all the time. They must be trolling or some crap. I will rarely have one of the people he described in a group and next to never have two in the same group. I have under geared people that do less damage than me sometimes, sure, but I'm ICC-25 geared and heroics are MEANT for new 80s, not "lol you need 5800 gs to run with me."

I honestly don't run into many people who pull extra mobs, and I rarely have trouble with aggro. If you are the great player and geared tank you claim to be, aggro shouldn't be much of a problem. Claiming that tanks work "oh so hard" I find a little silly as well, because I honestly can't remember the last time I had to "work hard" in a heroic. Heroics are easy mode. The only reason tanks complain is because there is a shortage so many of them feel they are somehow more important than everyone else.

[Tyrrandion]

Try some punctuation next time please? Very hard to read.

OT: Everyone can be elitist.
DPS can: "you don't pull as much DPS as me even though you're in blues and I'm in 264's? RAGE!"
Healers can: "tank, you don't have a high enough health pool/mitigations that I can just play peggle and have a DPS on follow? RAGE!"

Everyone runs into some people that they would rather not have at some point. Weather it be asshats, people who slow you down, what have you. As a result of the anonimity of WoW, most will opt to be Assholes and grief everyone because they aren't as "good" as they are.

Tanks aren't the only people who have a reason to be leary of other players, because I've seen some tanks make some pretty stuipid mistakes and wipe the group. Hell, a few of those times I was that tank. Mistakes happen, don't be an asshole about them and everyone will get along just fine.