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  1. #1

    beserking or mongoose

    Ok so when i was playing around with rawr i noticed that it said i would get a dps increase for using mongoose. Any thoughts on this?

  2. #2
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Be careful with mongoose. We recently (meaning since the last release) found out that Mongoose no longer supplies 2% physical Haste. Instead it only gives 30 haste rating. I've updated RAWR in the source code (meaning the change will be in the next release [whenever that is]) and I'd advise not going with Mongoose at this time. Instead keep an eye on Beserking, Massacre, and Executioner.

  3. #3
    ok thank you hinalover

  4. #4
    Field Marshal Gamosh's Avatar
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    thanks i had the same problem with my druid this helps alot

  5. #5
    High Overlord Mortimer's Avatar
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    Have we had any word whether that change was intentional? I strongly doubt it, since it's effectively cut the haste it gives in half.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortimer View Post
    Have we had any word whether that change was intentional? I strongly doubt it, since it's effectively cut the haste it gives in half.
    There's been no 'official' word that I've seen, but it seems pretty reasonable to me - intentionally nerfing an enchant to keep it from remaining as a BIS enchant a full expansion and 4 tiers of content later doesn't seem unreasonable.
    Bigslick (2/7 Mythic) Lethal on Thunderhorn-US, 2 night raid schedule
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortimer View Post
    Have we had any word whether that change was intentional? I strongly doubt it, since it's effectively cut the haste it gives in half.
    Im very sure its intentional, goose + cats speed were the only "old" enchant that was worth using. Every other enchant from tbc or vanilla was outdated and no longer of value for players since the wolk were better.

    If goose had continued to be better it would "force" players to go back and farm outdated instances. Also having an enchant that gave a % instead of rating is always going to be a problem, just like the gear from vanilla if it had not been changed to rating people would have been raiding with Naxx gear for atleast a tier or 2. Having an enchant give a rating makes sure it "quickly" gets outdated which means developers does not need to design the game or the classes around they migh being able to use 30 enchants but can focus on 2-3. All in all making it far easyer for the game designers and the players since you dont need to run a 3rd party program to see when zerking is best and when goose is.

  8. #8
    High Overlord Mortimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick View Post
    There's been no 'official' word that I've seen, but it seems pretty reasonable to me - intentionally nerfing an enchant to keep it from remaining as a BIS enchant a full expansion and 4 tiers of content later doesn't seem unreasonable.
    Unreasonable or not, what's the point? So what if it's been the king of the hill for going on three years now? Mongoose is (or was...) only marginally better than Berserk (for cats) at ICC levels, so it's not like it needed a nerf. I'm not nerd raging about the fact that they stealth nerfed it, I'm just curious as to the reason why they did it now, and not 20 months ago when the trend was first appearing. I guess I'll go have a peek around the official forums and see if anyone's made a mention of it yet.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazhr View Post
    Im very sure its intentional, goose + cats speed were the only "old" enchant that was worth using. Every other enchant from tbc or vanilla was outdated and no longer of value for players since the wolk were better.

    If goose had continued to be better it would "force" players to go back and farm outdated instances. Also having an enchant that gave a % instead of rating is always going to be a problem, just like the gear from vanilla if it had not been changed to rating people would have been raiding with Naxx gear for atleast a tier or 2. Having an enchant give a rating makes sure it "quickly" gets outdated which means developers does not need to design the game or the classes around they migh being able to use 30 enchants but can focus on 2-3. All in all making it far easyer for the game designers and the players since you dont need to run a 3rd party program to see when zerking is best and when goose is.
    Yeah, I can accept that as a reason. Makes sense, really. Ratings are easier to balance than percentages.
    Last edited by Mortimer; 2010-06-18 at 05:07 PM.

  9. #9
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    I believe what Chazhr said is correct. Percentage based enchants is far more difficult to balance around than flat ratings. Anyway specifying 30 haste rating is correct if you look at the level it was intended for. At lvl 70, one needed (if I remember correctly) 15.71 haste rating to equal 1% haste. Since the original intent was to give a 2% increase to physical haste, that would mean one needed 31.42 haste rating. However since Blizzard likes to keep things rounded, they dropped that number to 30 haste rating.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Mortimer's Avatar
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    Well, there we go then. I'm sort of relieved, to be honest. The mats for mongoose are usually much more costly and harder to get by on my server, and having to grind lvl 70 HC's on my barely Naxx10 geared DK wasn't actually all that fun. Now I guess I finally have a use for the 50+ Abyss Crystals I've been stockpiling.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortimer View Post
    I'm just curious as to the reason why they did it now, and not 20 months ago when the trend was first appearing.
    I could be wrong (easily) about this, but I'd been under the impression that the community had simply been unaware of the change until just recently, and that the original point of implementation is unknown.
    Bigslick (2/7 Mythic) Lethal on Thunderhorn-US, 2 night raid schedule
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  12. #12
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick View Post
    I could be wrong (easily) about this, but I'd been under the impression that the community had simply been unaware of the change until just recently, and that the original point of implementation is unknown.
    That is correct. It wasn't found out that the enchant was changed until two or so weeks ago. It's been theorized that they made the change in 3.3.3 when they made mention about Executioner enchant "Only one instance of this effect can be active at a time."

  13. #13
    until rawr gets updated you should use Toskk's for these enchants, for my gear berserker is .03 dps more than mongoose o.o and the nerf didn't really hit it as hard as some people thought.. based on your gear, mongoose could still be better

  14. #14
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quick update. RAWR version 2.3.19 will be released later tonight. So for those who want to know the difference of the updated Mongoose (and don't want to mess with the enchant.xml file directly) will be able to evaluate the enchant tomorrow morning.

  15. #15
    read this thread earlier:
    http://fluiddruid.net/2010/06/kitty-...nchant-roundu/

    Might be helpful.

  16. #16
    30 haste rating
    Lighting speed!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazhr View Post
    Im very sure its intentional, goose + cats speed were the only "old" enchant that was worth using. Every other enchant from tbc or vanilla was outdated and no longer of value for players since the wolk were better.
    For the longest time Rune of the Guard Captain was so good because it gave +hit in the days when pretty much nothing had hit on it.

  18. #18
    Im actually gunna test Black Magic vs Berserking tonight. Apparently its the best enchant for high gear levels. More clearcast procs ftw!

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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by billybob10110 View Post
    Im actually gunna test Black Magic vs Berserking tonight. Apparently its the best enchant for high gear levels. More clearcast procs ftw!
    Going to spam FFF every 6 seconds?

    edit: never mind, I see from fluiddruid that it procs from mangle/shred for some reason.
    Last edited by Ssateneth; 2010-06-22 at 06:48 PM.

  20. #20
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    You are correct. The only thing that people are able to figure out why this is happening is that shred, mangle, and maul are the only attacks that are able to proc infected wounds if specced for it. However the abilities are able to proc the enchant even while not specced into infected wounds while in kitty form. For bears, it only procs for mangle and maul, while specced into infected wounds. In some ways, I really don't see them fixing this given that so few druids will have the gear to make use of the enchant.

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