The Worgen Origin (not NDA breaking)

[Negrido]

It seems like curse is used as a synonym for affliction, malady, or sickness. The shapeshifting itself is the problem. How it is contagious we don't yet know. So its possible this kind of shapeshifting is radically different than the ones we normally see from druids. Maybe a punishment for their avarice, maybe a failure in their experimentation.

I'm still betting Micheal J Fox traveled back from the future to tamper with those druids, causing them to become teen wolves.

[finglafin]

No. You keep ignoring the Goldrinn, the WOLF demigod, factor here. There was no summoning or whatever in the past.

The notion that they were followers of Goldrinn is irrelevant. The sentence clearly states that this is the origin of the curse, not the race.

They were followers of Goldrinn, they came across knowledge of the Worgen race and thought "hey, those guys look like wolves, we can please Goldrinn by transforming into them!"

So they go ahead and do that misguided thing, and go "agghh those things weren't really natural wolves at all but twisted otherworldly creatures, and now we are losing our minds and are unable to change back because we transformed into unnatural werewolves from another dimension".

---------- Post added 06-19-2010 at 02:09 PM ----------

...
The feral Druids of the Scythe ARE the original Worgen. Just like the Druids of the Claw were feral bears in Warcraft III.

So, by that comparison, bears originated from the druids of the claw right?

---------- Post added 06-19-2010 at 02:11 PM ----------

It seems like curse is used as a synonym for affliction, malady, or sickness. The shapeshifting itself is the problem. How it is contagious we don't yet know. So its possible this kind of shapeshifting is radically different than the ones we normally see from druids. Maybe a punishment for their avarice, maybe a failure in their experimentation.

I'm still betting Micheal J Fox traveled back from the future to tamper with those druids, causing them to become teen wolves.

Curse means a curse. Its bad because worgens are unnatural beings not native to Azeroth's native dimension, so transforming into them screws you up. It spread to Gilneans through Arugals tampering

[Deleted]

The notion that they were followers of Goldrinn is irrelevant. The sentence clearly states that this is the origin of the curse, not the race.

They were followers of Goldrinn, they came across knowledge of the Worgen race and thought "hey, those guys look like wolves, we can please Goldrinn by transforming into them!"

So they go ahead and do that misguided thing, and go "agghh those things weren't really natural wolves at all but twisted otherworldly creatures, and now we are losing our minds and are unable to change back because we transformed into unnatural werewolves from another dimension".

Seriously, believe me, there are no alien worgens or whatever. Druids that go feral and get stuck on their animal totems is not a new concept of Warcraft. Like the example I gave several times already, the Druids of the Claw. There was no bear alien race summoned and turned those druids into bears.

[finglafin]

Seriously, believe me, there are no alien worgens or whatever. Druids that go feral and get stuck on their animal totems is not a new concept of Warcraft. Like the example I gave several times already, the Druids of the Claw. There was no bear alien race summoned and turned those druids into bears.

Yes, and your example of the Druids of the Claw demonstrates how you are contradicting yourself.

The Druids of the Claw did not CREATE bears, bears were preexisting creatures.

The Druids of the Scythe did not CREATE Worgen, Worgen were preexisting creatures.

Druids cannot CREATE beings with their shapeshifting, they shift into preexisting beings.

[Skvadrin]

maybe all the worgen that aren't druids are just offspring of the crazy druids of the scythe that did it while in their shapeshifted form...

yeah... Ever think about that? doubt it!

[Deleted]

Seriously, believe me, there are no alien worgens or whatever. Druids that go feral and get stuck on their animal totems is not a new concept of Warcraft. Like the example I gave several times already, the Druids of the Claw. There was no bear alien race summoned and turned those druids into bears.

Not taking sides here, but shouldn't the druids have an image(prototype) after which they decide to take an animan form? I mean, the bear, cat, flying and aquatic form did not just came from their imagination. And I kinda doubth that the (demi?)god you're talking about looked like the current worgen(half-wolf, half-humanoid).

[Negrido]

Curse means a curse. Its bad because worgens are unnatural beings not native to Azeroth's native dimension, so transforming into them screws you up. It spread to Gilneans through Arugals tampering

Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

[Deleted]

Yes, and your example of the Druids of the Claw demonstrates how you are contradicting yourself.

The Druids of the Claw did not CREATE bears, bears were preexisting creatures.

The Druids of the Scythe did not CREATE Worgen, Worgen were preexisting creatures.

Druids cannot CREATE beings with their shapeshifting, they shift into preexisting beings.

Yes, the druids do shift into the aspect of their animal totem, based on demigods.

Druids of the Claw: Ursoc and Ursol.
Druids of the Talon: Aviana.
Druids of the Fang: Snakes (these are another example of corruption).
Druids of the Antler: Malorne.
Druids of the Scythe: Goldrinn.

It's that hard to grasp that the Worgen are shapeshifters stuck on a wolf animal totem? Worgens are wolves. Azeroth has wolves, including a wolf demigod.

---------- Post added 06-19-2010 at 03:27 PM ----------

And I kinda doubth that the (demi?)god you're talking about looked like the current worgen(half-wolf, half-humanoid).

Druids of the Talon shapeshift into ravens, which looks nothing like Aviana. Yet, she is their demigod/animal totem. Why? Because she can also turn herself into a raven.

[Dryade]

The original Worgen were Druids of the Scythe that followed Goldrinn, the wolf demigod. They went feral during/after fighting the Burning Legion back in the War of the Ancients and were jailed on the Emerald Nightmare.

But that isn't what originally happened. During the War of the Ancients, Velinda Starsong came across the Scythe of Elune and summoned them to fight off the demons in Felwood and Ashenvale.

[Dragonshardz]

So much for the evil, curse'meh conspiracy... I don't like it. Don't like it a damn bit.

[Deleted]

But that isn't what originally happened. During the War of the Ancients, Velinda Starsong came across the Scythe of Elune and summoned them to fight off the demons in Felwood and Ashenvale.

Not the War of the Ancients, the Third War. She spokes about Dalaran and Arugal on the same jornal, so it's present day.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Velinde%27s_Journal

[Asmo]

Yes, the druids do shift into the aspect of their animal totem, based on demigods.

Druids of the Claw: Ursoc and Ursol.
Druids of the Talon: Aviana.
Druids of the Fang: Snakes (these are another example of corruption).
Druids of the Antler: Malorne.
Druids of the Scythe: Goldrinn.

It's that hard to grasp that the Worgen are shapeshifters stuck on an wolf animal totem? Worgens are wolves. Azeroth have wolves, including a wolf demigod.

I'm not sure if you are using aspects and totems in the right context. Druidic sects follow a particular demigod, but they base their transformations on actual animals. As such, druids wishing to mimic a canine demigod would be likely to chose a natural wolf as their form. Notice that Claw druids were bears, not half bears, and those of the raven weren't half bird hybrids.

The implication that you are making is that the wolf demigod appeared as a half wolf/ half human in appearance and the night elves of his sect copied him. It would stand to reason, however, that much like the other demigods, Goldrinn would have the appearance of a large wolf rather than the slavering worgen. It would then further make sense that the druids of his sect, in attempting to mimic the obviously canine worgen, were driven mad because they are not one with nature. (Which would allow them to be both an original race and also still have a backstory that fits with being from another dimension)

[finglafin]

Yes, the druids do shift into the aspect of their animal totem, based on demigods.

Druids of the Claw: Ursoc and Ursol.
Druids of the Talon: Aviana.
Druids of the Fang: Snakes (these are another example of corruption).
Druids of the Antler: Malorne.
Druids of the Scythe: Goldrinn.

It's that hard to grasp that the Worgen are shapeshifters stuck on an wolf animal totem? Worgens are wolves. Azeroth have wolves, including a wolf demigod.

---------- Post added 06-19-2010 at 03:27 PM ----------



Druids of the Talon shapeshift into ravens, which looks nothing like Aviana. Yet, she is their demigod/animal totem.

There is well established lore that states where Worgen come from, and nothing about these new revelations contradicts that, except for your assertions.

And none of those other druid orders created the animals that are their totemic symbol.

Claw didnt create bears
Talon didnt create birds
Fang didnt create snakes
Antler didnt create Elk

Yet this one exception in your mind, the Druids of the Scythe created Worgen where there were none before.

Anyway, Goldrinn is a giant white wolf, not a werewolf.

Claw druids don't turn into some kind of upright, walking bear, they turn into 99% bear with ears of a night elf or horns.

[Deleted]

There is well established lore that states where Worgen come from, and nothing about these new revelations contradicts that, except for your assertions.

My assertions are based on Metzen's own words, that the Worgen are from "somewhen else".

The demigods themselves are shapeshifters. Like the example I gave, Aviana.

Seriously, this is the limit I can go without entering NDA talking.

[ToolOfWrath]

Indeed, like other people have been pointing out, the original worgen were from a different dimension summoned into Azeroth to help fight against the Burning Legion. The Night Elves eventually couldnt tame the Worgen for long and they went round spreading their form, or "curse". This would still tie in with the Night Elves wanting to help the Gilneans fight the curse because it is still their fault though
http://www.wowwiki.com/Scythe_of_Elune <-- used to summon the Worgen into Azeroth

"By further channeling the energy of the Scythe, the barriers of time and space weakened, and she was able to draw the worgen into the world of Azeroth. First, they followed her into battle, and with their brutish strength at her command, they tore into the demons of Felwood. Later, she noticed, that though she had not summoned additional worgen, their numbers continued to increase. It was as though the Scythe no longer required her intervention for the summoning process."

[Deleted]

Indeed, like other people have been pointing out, the original worgen were from a different dimension summoned into Azeroth to help fight against the Burning Legion. The Night Elves eventually couldnt tame the Worgen for long and they went round spreading their form, or "curse". This would still tie in with the Night Elves wanting to help the Gilneans fight the curse because it is still their fault though
http://www.wowwiki.com/Scythe_of_Elune <-- used to summon the Worgen into Azeroth

The Third War, not the War of the Ancients. This is one of the problems, people confuse both wars.

[Zarleck]

Urm... I dunno about you guys but this sounds to me like a rip-off of the Dragon age quest "The beast within".

"Nature of the Beast"

And yes, that was my first thought as well..
This is definitely interesting, although maybe a little disappointing.

[finglafin]

My assertions are based on Metzen's own words, that the Worgen are from "somewhen else".

The demigods themselves are shapeshifters. Like the example I gave, Aviana.

Seriously, this is the limit I can go without entering NDA talking.

But if worgen were the product of Azerothian druids like you are stating, then they wouldn't be from "somewhere else" they would be anomalous, but still native to Azeroth. So that supports my point rather than yours.

They are from somewhere else, another plane of existence that they were summoned from by the scythe of elune.

And even if you did have access to NDA restricted material, given all of our previous discourse I doubt you would decipher it in a way that reflected its original intent.

[Zongo]

So... this is off-topic, but slightly related because it has to do with worldofraids.

Does anybody have a clue how to fix this issue im having with the site?

I took screenshots to show exactly what im experiencing. The first screenshot is how WoR "SHOULD" look, but the second screen is how WoR appears on my screen about 3 seconds after loading ANY WoR page. (its not just for the beginning page, but for every page on wor)

http://yfrog.com/jkwor2mp
http://yfrog.com/jowor1p

Anyone know how to fix this?

[ToolOfWrath]

The Third War, not the War of the Ancients. This is one of the problems, people confuse both wars.

Oh, my bad then, i just assumed this because of the demon factor thanks for correction.