Shadow Priest Rotation?

[Zarghoul]

The thing I wonder about is when it's worth casting Sw:P or not casting it. The EJ rotation thread says you only cast SW:P if it's going to be refreshed, but does refreshing it once make it worth casting over a MF or MB? Or does two refreshes make it worthwhile?

[fabian]

First off, for shadow priest info, go to shadowpriest.com, it is more informative and better than EJ, and second, only refresh SW:P in the situations that has a "YES" next to them in this thread: http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=23642

[Zarghoul]

First off, for shadow priest info, go to shadowpriest.com, it is more informative and better than EJ, and second, only refresh SW:P in the situations that has a "YES" next to them in this thread: http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=23642

Maybe I mis-worded my question. SW:P has a pretty crappy DP:cast. How many ticks of SW:P would make it worth casting over let's say...1 MF? I'm asking this because when I was doing LK last night I wasn't sure if it was worth using SW:P on raging spirits or not. I think it barely goes past a full normal 18 second duration.

[Velran]

My personal opener is: VT - SW:P - Shadowfiend - DP - MF - Refresh VT and recast SW:P

Firstly I know I waste a GCD by recasting SW:P, but in a raid situation not all of the avaliable debuffs are on the target when I start dpsing so its pointless to cast SW:P once after say 3 seconds with 5 stacks of SW, when melee probably haven't even got to the target to apply any debuffs.

Secondly, it produces a high burst damage opener and i'm often top of the meters in the first few seconds, because by the time I cast DP and start MFing, the first ticks of VT and SW:P hit and SF starts attacking, which in itself is 3 seperate ticks of damage.

Also me being a troll I have beserking to make up for the loss of a GCD (which I macro with IF, and then MF), which brings my dps back up when I get the dip from recasting SW:P.

On bosses, and even on dummies i've found myself getting higher dps using this opener, instead of a single SW:P cast opener. Although, I don't have any figures to back it up.

[Frmercury]

IV. Rotation

We have a simple, yet complex method of doing damage. We rely heavily on our three DoT’s for sustained damage while we have MB and MF as nuke and filler spells respectively. Accurately carrying our rotation is paramount to our DPS (obviously).

Opening Sequences:
VT ~ MB ~ MF ~ DP ~ SW:P
or
VT ~ DP ~ MF ~ SW:P ~ MB

-The first gets Replenishment out immediately and puts up DP with SWx5, while the second gets DoTs up quick and rolling. Either way is fine as your opener has almost no effect on your overall DPS in a fight.

With BM
MF ~ MF (two ticks) ~ VT ~ DP ~ SW:P ~ MB

-This will get BM to proc early in the opener to get up DoTs with the extra Haste.

Without MB
VT ~ DP ~ MF ~ SW:P

In all of these SW:P is cast in the latter part. This is done for two reasons; the first is to get five stack of Shadow Weaving and the second is to allow all raid buffs and debuffs to be applied to assure that SW:P is going up as strong as possible.


Priorities:

Think of Shadow DPS, although there is a ‘rotation’ you’ll fall into, as a hierarchy of priorities:


Number 1:
Vampiric Touch - Cast so that it lands .1 to .5 seconds after the VT currently on the target ends. This means being aware of it's cast time and requires practice to get it right. DO NOT CLIP under any circumstances.

Number 2:
Devouring Plague - Cast only after the DP currently on the target falls off. DO NOT CLIP under most circumstances.

Number 3 and 4:
Mind Blast
-With 4pc T10 you will only use MB when it does not conflict with VT or DP recasts and MFx3. The best time I've found is right after a DoT recast. It's not paramount that you cast on CD basically, just where it fits nicely.
-With 4pc T10 and certain levels of gear you can drop MB from your rotation; you will find out if this is right for you in the FAQ section
-Without 4pc T10 it is Number 3 priority and should be cast on CD unless VT or DP need to be recast. In that case cast the DoT and cast MB immediately after.

Mind Flay
- With 4pc T10 Number 3 basically. You can clip after 2 ticks for VT and DP recasts.
- Without 4pc T10 it's basically a filler spell used when you don't have to recast VT, DP, or MB.

Shadow Word: Pain - Is cast in the opener, but then Pain and Suffering will refresh SW:P every time you cast MF on your target. Shadow Word: Pain should only be recast when you gain certain buffs or your target gains certain debuffs.

The full list of buffs and debuffs that warrant a SW:P recast can be found here: Harb_ID @ http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=23642

[cruxxy]

My personal opener is: VT - SW:P - Shadowfiend - DP - MF - Refresh VT and recast SW:P

Firstly I know I waste a GCD by recasting SW:P, but in a raid situation not all of the avaliable debuffs are on the target when I start dpsing so its pointless to cast SW:P once after say 3 seconds with 5 stacks of SW, when melee probably haven't even got to the target to apply any debuffs.

Secondly, it produces a high burst damage opener and i'm often top of the meters in the first few seconds, because by the time I cast DP and start MFing, the first ticks of VT and SW:P hit and SF starts attacking, which in itself is 3 seperate ticks of damage.

Also me being a troll I have beserking to make up for the loss of a GCD (which I macro with IF, and then MF), which brings my dps back up when I get the dip from recasting SW:P.

On bosses, and even on dummies i've found myself getting higher dps using this opener, instead of a single SW:P cast opener. Although, I don't have any figures to back it up.

This makes no sense. You say yourself that you're wasting a GCD. And you compensate for a wasted GCD with beserking? Why not use the GCD to do damage? Even SW: D would be more productive than doublecasting SW:P.

[Niero123]

Troll :x

[fabian]

Maybe I mis-worded my question. SW:P has a pretty crappy DP:cast. How many ticks of SW:P would make it worth casting over let's say...1 MF? I'm asking this because when I was doing LK last night I wasn't sure if it was worth using SW:P on raging spirits or not. I think it barely goes past a full normal 18 second duration.

I now understand the question, and it is easier to answer. Although SW:P has a horrible DPET for 18s, since you effectively have to do nothing to keep it up the entire fight, it is still beneficial to cast; it also adds damage to MF. The damage lost is ~1.5 MF, which is made up by the end of the fight in a variety of ways(buffing MF, damage SW:P does by itself).

[Annesh]

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#3 NITE ALF FLIP JUMP WHILE SPAM IMP DP
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#5 WEN RADE ASKS WEAR U FIND BEST SPREIST RUTASHUN TEL THEM I SEND U

[Velran]

This makes no sense. You say yourself that you're wasting a GCD. And you compensate for a wasted GCD with beserking? Why not use the GCD to do damage? Even SW: D would be more productive than doublecasting SW:P.

I'd rather recast SW:P 10 seconds later, waste a gcd and have much higher starting dps, than sit around waiting for everyone to get every possible debuff on the target to cast SW:P once.

I don't think you understood the concept of my rotation. I'm not recasting SW:P for the fun of it, i'm recasting so that it gives everyone in the raid a chance to apply their appropriate debuffs to the target. I think its safe to say that casting SW:P once after 3 seconds of entering combat is not going to guarantee that you have all debuffs avaliable from a 25man raid, and if you use shadowgreenlight, you'll most likely see that your missing atleast one debuff. Im giving the raid a good 10 seconds to apply their debuffs to then recast SW:P, and i've not to this day had to recast after that to add a missing debuff (unless its situational, e.g. BQL).

[Kelesti]

Then you are spending a GCD doing zero DPS later, when you could be getting off at least two ticks of Mind Flay in the exact same timeframe.

It's just not feasible. By the time you get your 5 stacks of Shadow Weaving up (even if it's just two Mind Flays), Ebon Plaguebringer, Improved Scorch, and Heart of the Crusader should already be active, so casting a full-strength Shadow Word: Pain isn't really "that hard" to do.

It's not that you're "recasting it for the fun of it", you're recasting it to waste time that could better be spent elsewhere. It doesn't take 30 seconds for debuffs to go out. It takes 2 1/2 (3 1/2 if your DK's are finishing an Army before the pull goes out, and have to run into melee).

For the sake of "higher starting DPS", i.e. stronger Mind Flay damage in the beginning, that damage difference at the beginning doesn't outweigh the Mind Flay you lost because of the need to recast it.

If you're raiding with people who don't manage their own debuffs and it takes longer to put them up, well may I suggest you open recruitment with your guild to replace them?

[Purple]

[u][b]

Opening Sequences:
VT ~ MB ~ MF ~ DP ~ SW:P

This is my preferred opening. VT up right away and following it up with Mind Blast and then using Mind Flay to up those last three stacks. It's picture perfection in every fight that you can practically use this sequence as an opener.

Of course I'd prefer they fix the issues with dots and shadow weaving stacks so that you had a little bit more freedom..

[fabian]

This is my preferred opening. VT up right away and following it up with Mind Blast and then using Mind Flay to up those last three stacks. It's picture perfection in every fight that you can practically use this sequence as an opener.

Of course I'd prefer they fix the issues with dots and shadow weaving stacks so that you had a little bit more freedom..

I believe they might make it happen, to help with the ramp up time. Although it won't do much, it just means that the best opening rotation would be the one where we'll either get the most damage done or the quickest way to get SW up.

[Achtland]

I'd rather recast SW:P 10 seconds later, waste a gcd and have much higher starting dps, than sit around waiting for everyone to get every possible debuff on the target to cast SW:P once.

I don't think you understood the concept of my rotation. I'm not recasting SW:P for the fun of it, i'm recasting so that it gives everyone in the raid a chance to apply their appropriate debuffs to the target. I think its safe to say that casting SW:P once after 3 seconds of entering combat is not going to guarantee that you have all debuffs avaliable from a 25man raid, and if you use shadowgreenlight, you'll most likely see that your missing atleast one debuff. Im giving the raid a good 10 seconds to apply their debuffs to then recast SW:P, and i've not to this day had to recast after that to add a missing debuff (unless its situational, e.g. BQL).

Ok so outside the fact that unless absolutely neccessary and read that as UNAVOIDABLE...you should not be letting your SW:P fall off...EVER. It gets refreshed by MF. So to cast SW:P without five stacks of shadow weaving is not ONLY a waste of a GCD but stupid beyond measure because you will never equal the dmg output by a shadowpriest of equal gear who stacks properly. And if you have a proper opening rotation by the time you APPLY SW:P all the appropriate debuffs from other classes that you're worried about are already applied. Don't forget that you should be stacking haste around 2900 SP so you're going to reach a point where you edit out MB and SW if you haven't reached that point already. Which makes MF your biggest dmg spell...which continuously reapplies SW:P.... I know other people have said this already but maybe reading it several different ways will help you learn the error of your ways.

As for the opener of:

VT, DP etc....For some odd reason and we're still trying to figure it out...it throws off my timing and on the dummies I get less total dmg output then if I do my rotation. Maybe if someone has some time they could help me figure out what I'm doing wrong in this regard

[axxey]

Theoretical openers aren't always best in practicality.

We have limited number of spells we can cast while moving, most boss fights you'll have casting while positioning yourself at the start.

I'll often open with SWP(no front loaded damage, as tank runs in), SWD, DP, (in position or close) VT, MB(replenishment as soon as stationary + 5th SW). Then SWP again.
A lot of boss fights will have around 3 globals spent while positioning at start, i dont like to fiend till later with full sunders etc and I'm not comfortable MF clipping with my latency.

[Abandon]

That's true, my opening is mind blast, mind flay, nevermelting ice crystal, vampiric touch, shadow word: pain, devouring plague. This let's me apply all three dots with an extra 30% crit, and apply sw: p with five stacks of shadow weaving. Of course, this is only because of the trinket, if/when I upgrade it I'll use something different. As long as you have 5 stacks before you apply sw: p, and only apply it once per mob, you can't go too far wrong.

[fabian]

Theoretical openers aren't always best in practicality.

We have limited number of spells we can cast while moving, most boss fights you'll have casting while positioning yourself at the start.

I'll often open with SWP(no front loaded damage, as tank runs in), SWD, DP, (in position or close) VT, MB(replenishment as soon as stationary + 5th SW). Then SWP again.
A lot of boss fights will have around 3 globals spent while positioning at start, i dont like to fiend till later with full sunders etc and I'm not comfortable MF clipping with my latency.

Unless you're raid is going to use BL/Heroism early, it would probably be better to use SF instead of SW: P because I do believe using it does stack SW, so you're not losing a GCD and you probably will gain more dps.

Also, anyone know where the 'Disable Smile' option I was told about? I do not like it when my SW: P turns to SW:P, same thing goes with SW: D.

[Phyta]

VT - DP - MD (this will be 3x shadow weaving) - MF (this will add stack 4 & 5 to shadow weaving) SWP.

This will get all your dots up, give you 5 stacks of shadow weaving, shadowy insight should also be up at this point along with misery, and you will have applied SWP with 5 stacks of Shadow Weaving vs any lower amount of stacks. Refresh VT and DP when they expire (NEVER CLIP THEM EVER) MB when on cooldown to refresh misery and refresh SWP with MF.

does just fine

[Frmercury]

Any opener is fine as long as SW: P goes up with SW x5 as it has almost no effect on your overall DPS in a fight.