My Disappointment is Justified

[Blonk]

Zarhym, 11/18/2008:

Keep in mind that guilds like [Nihilum/SK] are comprised of people who have bested every raid encounter we've released since Onyxia and Molten Core. They've made it a focus for years now to conquer every piece of PvE content we put out there, and do it first. Knowledge, experience, and teamwork are built rapidly when struggling through so many different boss encounters.

Now, I'm not arguing that the raid content is any easier or harder than in the past. I've not done any of the 25 man raids yet. I do get the feeling though that the majority of the people I've seen on the forums specifically arguing that the content is too easy, based on the performance or opinions of the top guilds of the world, have not experienced the content either.

Is it possible you will draw the same conclusion when you've cleared every 25 man encounter through Arthas (when his time comes)? Of course. When your intuitions grow into experience after you've made such accomplishments you'll have better ground from which to justify your disappointment.

Filibusters of excuses such as this regarding the simplification of the game have been progressive for about two years now. The above quote recently caught my attention and peaked a curiosity of how much they are willing to be dishonest or flat out rude with their original customers for the sake of an easy buck. When overwhelming evidence was presented that the game has in fact been cut down substantially in difficulty, blues were rather quick to admit raiding is now for less skilled raiders and in rare occasions even go as far as mocking those upsets with the change.

However, the story changes again.

Recently, nigh of a new expansion and a chapter of huge income to Blizzard Entertainment, their motives shift -- in theory. They claim a major change in a badge system (seen here) that appears to be an old face with a different name, the increased difficulty to Cataclysm raids, and recently, the revival of epic items.

It is one thing to litter your product for the sake of majority rule and profit, but it's another thing to shit all over the portion of players that have been dedicated subscribers and participants in all content, good and bad, then smile sweetly back at them when they have some potential cash to throw into corporate pockets.

I guess this is more of a diary entry. No one seems to agree anymore.

[bloodkin]

waht is happoning, is that about the samllest group of players, the hardcore players, are not getting what they want, but seriously, how can a company justify in anny way, financially or time wise that this is in anny way good for the game ? the hardcore group is heard most and represented groep, because they are the ones who talk the most in the internet, and so u will see way more complaining ppl.

ppl tend to not talk alot about good stuff, only like to complain about bad stuff

this game is not te property of the 'hardcore players' and also not of the casuals,

this game is blizzards prorperty, and they can and should do whatever they want with it,

so stop saying we own it and we should rule it, u would make the game worse for the rest of the players

(yes i support casuals, because they are the majority, they are legion, and can not be defeated

[SilkforCalde]

another QQ thread? ICC is the best raid Blizz ever made. The stacking buff is amazingly implemented. It's a wonderful raid. Stop crying. The old days were invariably worse.

[Orumis]

Sorry you're not happy about the raids these days. I am, along with a lot of people on these forums and I play with. As I've continued to say, it's difficult to find a suitable raid design to appease EVERYONE. Until WotLK, this was never even attempted. The casuals specifically got the short end of the stick by a mile, and now the "hardcores," or "skilled" people are getting the short end of the stick.

What's your solution?

[Izenhart]

Zarhym, 11/18/2008:



Filibusters of excuses such as this regarding the simplification of the game have been progressive for about two years now. The above quote recently caught my attention and peaked a curiosity of how much they are willing to be dishonest or flat out rude with their original customers for the sake of an easy buck. When overwhelming evidence was presented that the game has in fact been cut down substantially in difficulty, blues were rather quick to admit raiding is now for less skilled raiders and in rare occasions even go as far as mocking those upsets with the change.

However, the story changes again.

Recently, nigh of a new expansion and a chapter of huge income to Blizzard Entertainment, their motives shift -- in theory. They claim a major change in a badge system (seen here) that appears to be an old face with a different name, the increased difficulty to Cataclysm raids, and recently, the revival of epic items.

It is one thing to litter your product for the sake of majority rule and profit, but it's another thing to shit all over the portion of players that have been dedicated subscribers and participants in all content, good and bad, then smile sweetly back at them when they have some potential cash to throw into corporate pockets.

I guess this is more of a diary entry. No one seems to agree anymore.

You call having only 1 people out of 10 able to do Valithria25 HM easier?
1 people out of 10 able to do Saurfang25 HM?
8.38% of all the WoW base population being able to do Lady Deathwhisper25 HM easier?

That's nowhere near "easy" in my vocabulary.

Yeah fine, you see relative-casuals with Kingslayer and 264 gear...so? Does a title and some epics means everything's easier?

Even HM Marrowgar25, a ridicolous boss, has been done just by 17% of the guilds in the world.

Even the 25men HM Val'Kyr Twins has been cleared only by the 12% of the guilds of WoW.

I mean, jesus christ, ONE YEAR after it was actual content, Firefighter, as known as Mimiron25 HM, has been done by 6% of the guilds.

Nothing in here seems to legit this "easy modeness".

[Nexus2089]

Games get easier the more you play them get used to it. Not to mention this game has been getting better and better with more streamlined classes, specs and gear. We don't have useless buff bot classes sitting back in 40 man raids doing nothing waiting to hit blessing of might again and auto attacking. Then on top of blizz making this game flow better we have players making mods that increasingly trivialize and streamline boss encounters making it HARDER for blizz to come up with creative and difficult encounters that don't cross over into stupid and unkillable.

Tl:dr there's nothing you or blizz can really do about it this game will never return to the so called "glory days" because its been improved way beyond that point.

[Deleted]

I think you just got your ass handed to you by this fine chap who goes by the name of Izenhart

[Orumis]

I think you just got your ass handed to you by this fine chap who goes by the name of Izenhart

He also forgot to mention that was with the 25% buff and 20 weeks or so into hardmodes, I've pointed out these facts multiple times in multiple threads, people will argue content to be harder until it's literally impossible.

[Zonas]

another QQ thread? ICC is the best raid Blizz ever made. The stacking buff is amazingly implemented. It's a wonderful raid. Stop crying. The old days were invariably worse.

WoW... really... you obv havnt done too many raids have you...

[Siraeyou]

I think you just got your ass handed to you by this fine chap who goes by the name of Izenhart

QFT The reason there are things called hard modes is so that casuals can obtain a sense of achievement, while the hardcore players can still gain feats that set them above the rest

[Lebored]

You've confused yourself into believing that the game becoming easier is a bad thing.
Games are for fun, not your personal online glory.

They spent who knows how many hours creating Naxx40 only for what 1%? of the players to see it. They created this game for people to play it, not to suffer your inferiority complex.

[macke]

A pug on Outland killed Putricide 25 HC today, 2 shot.

Gogo cant wait for them to prove how easy ICC really is aka Sindragosa HC.

[Deleted]

If you want raids to be harder, play without add-ons.

[Dyro]

I suddenly think of something: shouldn't it be completely logical to experience the game becoming progressively easier when you play it more and more? The heuristic of raiding is most likely acquired faster and faster when making consecutive progress.

[Lebored]

A pug on Outland killed Putricide 25 HC today, 2 shot.

Gogo cant wait for them to prove how easy ICC really is aka Sindragosa HC.

You're fooling yourself if you believe more people are doing hard mode encounters now than there were doing "regular" encounters in Vanilla/BC.
"Normal Mode" fights are easier than in the past sure, but if challenging fights is your thing the "Hard Mode" raiding is just as challenging as it used to be.

[Pahonek]

Less QQ more pew pew 25H Icecrown Citadel.

[Lebored]

Be honest with yourselves, during Ulduar when Hard Modes were available right away how many of your did Orbit-uary before going on ahead to Razor/Ignus?
The truth is when all of you complaining about how easy the game is had the chance to make the game easier on yourselves you took it, and are now pretending you want it to be hard.

Feel free to link your Armory with your Orbit-uary Achiev date before your Razorscale kill date if I'm out of line.

[SilkforCalde]

WoW... really... you obv havnt done too many raids have you...

No, I've done them all. You obviously have not the slightest clue what the word "opinion" means. I recommend opening up a dictionary and taking a look. Who knows, you might learn something.

[macke]

You're fooling yourself if you believe more people are doing hard mode encounters now than there were doing "regular" encounters in Vanilla/BC.
"Normal Mode" fights are easier than in the past sure, but if challenging fights is your thing the "Hard Mode" raiding is just as challenging as it used to be.

Where did I say that? I said that a yea, half PUG killed Putricide HC, the second 'hardest' encounter in ICC.

People keep saying how awesome ICC is while myself I think its a pisspoor raid. Its stairs with trash on them.

The boss encounters are some new and some old stuff taken and done with more damage and more HP, Shadowmourne is so insanly easy to obtain its just a big joke. The quest should only be done on Heroic and the shards should have a 1 - 25% droprate on Heroic. To complete the quest it should atleast require you to do something crazy, just going back and finish it is not a option, its like "hey man grats you we're lucky with some drops here get a free Axe" Valanyr atleast had a quest that you needed to kill Yogg HM. Casusals should not have acces to Legendarys. Rotface, Festergut, Marrowgar, Blood council, Blood queen, Dreamwalker should all have been harder.

The ICC design is really dire and is basicly gray stuff with fire.

Also creating a new Account and play Oldschool doesnt work.

[Chimpzilla]

I guess this is more of a diary entry. No one seems to agree anymore.

You'd probably be angry if the game didn't change. If you actually look, they tried with this expansion to truly separate the hardcore from the casual with hard mode encounters and heroic lockouts. Don't get mad simply because it wasn't to the degree or success you were expecting. It's pretty damn obvious that they tried so hard to add varying degrees of difficulty that it got a little out of hand. Hopefully in Cataclysm they won't have to focus on 8 types of raid lockouts and make the encounters more fun.

If you're not having fun quit.