Cata Fire no 50% inc crit dmg?

[StrEagle]

Am I missing something, or fire no longer has 50% increased crit dmg?

[Tilions]

Am I missing something, or fire no longer has 50% increased crit dmg?

Looks like it - however the talents aren't finished yet...

[Micke]

Pretty sure it's intentional to remove the huge difference in crit scaling for fire when compared to frost/arcane, as you can see in the tree they are really increasing living bombs/ignites/flashburns damage by alot to make up for that

[flame]

If they keep current (beta) damage on fire spells I can't see how fire will be even competitive.
Looking at other classes they all do 20k+ hits while we are getting what? 11k crits?

[Valdorick]

I'm more confused about all the bloody Crit they're giving us after the whole "We want to scale down on Crit for Fire mages, so not having Hot Streak doesn't feel like a Large chunk of missing DPS."... Good job with that and the 8% Crit we get with mastery alone... Before mastery Rating.

Infact, it looks like they mixed up Fire and Frost's stat Mastery. Fire should have higher Crit damage, for PvE, Frost should have higher crit Chance, for PvP... And to prevent 100K Deepfreeze Crits and dead Mages...

[Maku]

I'm more confused about all the bloody Crit they're giving us after the whole "We want to scale down on Crit for Fire mages, so not having Hot Streak doesn't feel like a Large chunk of missing DPS."... Good job with that and the 8% Crit we get with mastery alone... Before mastery Rating.

Infact, it looks like they mixed up Fire and Frost's stat Mastery. Fire should have higher Crit damage, for PvE, Frost should have higher crit Chance, for PvP... And to prevent 100K Deepfreeze Crits and dead Mages...

They actually removed most of the crit from the fire tree, except for Incineration where they added 3% crit for the spells specified in the tooltip.

And mastery rating won't improve the passive bonuses of spell crit and spell damage. Mastery rating will ONLY improve the "Flashburn" stat, which makes all your spells leave behind a dot.

[Swizzle]

If they keep current (beta) damage on fire spells I can't see how fire will be even competitive.
Looking at other classes they all do 20k+ hits while we are getting what? 11k crits?

crit damage modifiers are currently (supposedly) broken and some of the mage ones are actually subtracting damage rather than adding it.

[Goliethlol]

The majority of you are seeing the removal of crit damage and assuming the spec will stay as it is currently.

What they are doing (or planning to at least) is to GREATLY increase the effects of damage over time abilities within fire. Ignite, Flashburn, Fire Power, and Combustion will play major parts in making the brunt of the damage come in the form of dots after the target has been hit by a direct damage spell.

Combustion also looks like an extremely powerful ability. Compare it to an affliction lock. Imagine an affliction lock putting up all of his dots on a target, then using an ability that combines all of those dots into a single "super dot" that ticks for 10 seconds, then being able to reapply all of those dots that were consumed, ON TOP of the super dot it's self.

[Swizzle]

is that how combustion is working now? because i may have aced all my english classes and my APs, but i can't make sense out of the wording of that talent.

[Goliethlol]

is that how combustion is working now? because i may have aced all my english classes and my APs, but i can't make sense out of the wording of that talent.

Yea the wording is awful, but thats what my take on it was at least.

Combustion
When activated, this spell increases the critical strike chance on your next non-periodic Fire damage spell by 100%. In addition, when that critical strike lands, all of your existing Fire periodic damage effects will be merged into the Combustion effect, burning at the same rate but over 10 sec.

So lets say you have like, 15k damage over 30 seconds worth of dot damage on your target. You pop Combustion, hit that target with a direct damaging spell (scorch/fireball/pyroblast etc), and that ability is a guaranteed crit, then it merges that 15k /30 seconds into 15k / 10 seconds super dot.

[Micke]

I think combustion works like; atm ignite and I think flashburn are 4 second dots, for example if you got a 100k ignite tick after a crit streak, it would tick 2 times and total 200k, now combustion would make it a 10 sec dot where it ticks 100k still every 2 sec, making it a total of 500k instead

[Skarrd]

I think combustion works like; atm ignite and I think flashburn are 4 second dots, for example if you got a 100k ignite tick after a crit streak, it would tick 2 times and total 200k, now combustion would make it a 10 sec dot where it ticks 100k still every 2 sec, making it a total of 500k instead

This would make it a retardedly OP cooldown, but that does sound like what it is saying: "...same rate over 10s."

[Goliethlol]

Flashburn
Unlimited range
Your direct Fire damage spells cause the target to burn for an additional percentage of your spell's damage over 4 sec.

Yea, looks like you're correct on Flashburn, though I'm not sure about Combustion.


So, lets say 9.75k ignite tick + 9.75 Flashburn tick + 250 Fireball + 250 Pyroblast + 5k Living Bomb

Normally that'd be ((9750 x 2) x 2) + ((250 x 6) x 2) + (5000 x 6) = 99600 Total Damage

If you pop combustion that'd be 25k per tick for 10 seconds for a total of 125k damage. Not to mention that you can still reapply all of those dots that were combined while combustion's dot ticks.
That would definitely seem pretty good.



Either way it definitely seems pretty strong.

[zeli]

Fantastic. We are now all affliction locks. This is really what I was afraid of. If i wanted to play an affliction lock I would have rolled one.

[flame]

crit damage modifiers are currently (supposedly) broken and some of the mage ones are actually subtracting damage rather than adding it.

Oh ok. DIdn't know about that, thanks

is that how combustion is working now? because i may have aced all my english classes and my APs, but i can't make sense out of the wording of that talent.

God, i'm glad i'm not alone...

Yea the wording is awful, but thats what my take on it was at least.

Combustion
When activated, this spell increases the critical strike chance on your next non-periodic Fire damage spell by 100%. In addition, when that critical strike lands, all of your existing Fire periodic damage effects will be merged into the Combustion effect, burning at the same rate but over 10 sec.

So lets say you have like, 15k damage over 30 seconds worth of dot damage on your target. You pop Combustion, hit that target with a direct damaging spell (scorch/fireball/pyroblast etc), and that ability is a guaranteed crit, then it merges that 15k /30 seconds into 15k / 10 seconds super dot.

I understand what you're saying, and that would give us better "burst", but mages don't have dots that last that long, making it a PvE only buff (not complaining, just a bit disapointed)

So, lets say 9.75k ignite tick + 9.75 Flashburn tick + 250 Fireball + 250 Pyroblast + 5k Living Bomb

Normally that'd be ((9750 x 2) x 2) + ((250 x 6) x 2) + (5000 x 6) = 99600 Total Damage

If you pop combustion that'd be 25k per tick for 10 seconds for a total of 125k damage. Not to mention that you can still reapply all of those dots that were combined while combustion's dot ticks.
That would definitely seem pretty good.



Either way it definitely seems pretty strong.

Indeed. Now, balancing it to PvP will be very very hard...

[Skarrd]

It may not be that hard to balance in pvp. Rolling ignite and flashburn (assuming they act similarly and flashburn rolls as well) will be difficult in pvp, at least rolling them to high enough numbers for it to be incredible burst. Consider that hp will also be much, much larger, and the cooldown seems to only be strong in pve, yet still requires a measure of skill to make powerful in pve (timing it when you can no longer roll that 80k ignite, but not casting it before the rolling ends and missing out on the 100k ignite tick).

Dunno, we'll have to wait and see and I'm sure it'll be tweaked, but it seems like a good idea to me.

[Goliethlol]

Fantastic. We are now all affliction locks. This is really what I was afraid of. If i wanted to play an affliction lock I would have rolled one.

Thats not quite how it works... You don't have any DoTs to actually cast (aside from Living Bomb). All of the DoT effects are from hard casting direct damage spells into a target. Just think of the cata changes to fire as a reduction in crit damage, and a MASSIVE increase in ignite-type effects.

[zomgDPS]

Just think of the cata changes to fire as a reduction in crit damage, and a MASSIVE increase in ignite-type effects.

True, Cata fire pvp may skew towards a MASSIVE increase in ignite type effects, but if what you say is true then it will also be a MASSIVE increase in the snorefest and boredom that comes with playing the spec.

Fire (and Arcane) are hailed as the two single most boring specs to play in the entire game. Yet absolutely nothing is being done about that.

[Swizzle]

who hails them as that? have you not played an elemental shaman or even a ret paladin?

all mage specs seem boring on paper cause you have ZOMG SO LITTLE BUTTONS TO PRESSZOR, but the challenge comes from optimizing that and perfecting the DPS generated, much like shaman and ret paladins. this game, at the highest level, is not meant for the ADHD world that most want live in.

[zomgDPS]

who hails them as that? have you not played an elemental shaman or even a ret paladin?

all mage specs seem boring on paper cause you have ZOMG SO LITTLE BUTTONS TO PRESSZOR, but the challenge comes from optimizing that and perfecting the DPS generated, much like shaman and ret paladins. this game, at the highest level, is not meant for the ADHD world that most want live in.

Yup, you heard it right here folks. Fire and Arcane PvP takes skill to play according to this joker.

/rollseyes

The only optimizing you have to do when destroying people on the meters with your epic arcane/fire dps is the optimizing you will have to do on how to stay awake.
Most people report that binding fireball/arcane blast to all the keys on your keyboard then smashing your face into said keyboard at 2.5/3.0 second intervals (+haste) is a good 'optimization' to make since the force of the impact will trigger the sensory neurons which will fire the pain receptors in your brain (assuming you have one) at a level that is high enough to allow you to remain awake.

Fire and Arcane DPS is about as easymoade as it gets. You have 1 button to spam, and 1 button to push when a pretty light turns on. WoW! So much skill and training needed in that.

But please, keep telling yourself that you are accomplishing some immense feat of skill when you DPS with fire. Fragile egos usually need some fantasy to remain intact and prevent them from imploding.