Shadowform, Moonkin and Elemental

[thsevecha]

Hi, this is my first post here and I wanted to discuss Shadow Priest's, Moonkin's and Elemental's healing power and their respective forms. So Blizzard has stated that they don't want healing specs to sacrifice completely their ability to do damage (hence the change to Tree of Life form). Shadow Priests and Balance Druids are the opposite, they "sacrifice" their heals for more damage. On the other hand if you look from a pvp perspective (yeah, always pvp...) Shadow Priests and Moonkins are expected to heal themselves.

Why do we get "punished" for healing and are expected to heal at the same time? And also why don't Elemental Shamans need to give up healing in order to dps? Shouldn't they have a form too? I'm not here calling for Shaman nerfs, I just think thy should all get the same treatment. I also like Shadowform (don't like Moonkin that much, but still...), I was thinking maybe these forms should be mora of a cosmetic thing than an actual mechanic. What if Shadowform was tied to the new shadow mastery? Something like: when you start to acquire shadow orbs you also start to look shadowy, when we reach the maximum number of orbs we get the complete Shadowform look. For Moonkins it could be tied to Eclipse, when they start to reach an Eclipse (both, Lunar and Solar) they start to look like a Moonkin (feather start to grow... you get the idea).

I don't know it this has been already discussed, but I couldn't find a topic about this subject. So, what do you guys think?

PS.: Sorry about my English, it's not my mother language.

[Kelesti]

Shadow and Balance also take less damage while in their respective forms, a Shaman has only their Mail to rely on. The cooldowns and playstyles are different in both PvE and PvP, as well as which cooldowns are afforded them.

I don't know about you, but shifting into Shadowform has a badass connotation to it that goes above Cosmetic; giving it a wind-up tied into DPS is not just a let down of that, but also needs p be more graphically demanding simply to be "noticable and/or worth it". That simply will not do.

If you note, the Shaman's heals tend to be weaker, untalented. They only share the same spellcrit school, and the good toys are all Resto :P

[thsevecha]

Oh, I see. I've never played a Shaman, so I don't really know how good (or bad) their heals are compared to a Shadow priest or Balance Druid. I agree that shifting into Shadowform is badass, thats why I wanted to keep it, but only for cosmetic purposes and thought that tiering it to Shadow orbs would be a good way to keep it. You know, you start the fight in caster form and you start to "build up" shadow energy as you dps, think that would be cool.

Since all dots will benefit innately from haste and crit I feel like Shadowform might feel kind of obsolete (I know you also get 15% more shadow damage done and 15% less damage taken, but isn't Blizzard trying to remove all the boring passive stuff?).

Thanks for the reply!

[Kaesebrezen]

Shadow and Balance also take less damage while in their respective forms, a Shaman has only their Mail to rely on. The cooldowns and playstyles are different in both PvE and PvP, as well as which cooldowns are afforded them.

Look at the current Cataclysm Trees (i know... not final but)

Shaman: Heal and Damage possible
Moonkin: Provides Armor Bonus and two (passive) Raidbuffs, but locks out of heal
Shadowform: 15% Damage increase, 15% damage reduction and provides two(four) Raidbuffs(Haste, Mortal Strike and if we Heal VE), but locks out of heal

Shamans provide all their buffs while healing, their damage is unaffected.
Moonkin do not provide it's buffs while out of form, but their damage is unaffected. (i do not count armor bonus in PvE)
Shadow looses all it's Raidbuffs, it's damage reduction, and they don't can compete in damage, to have access to healing spells

I think Shadowform is a really fair tradeoff...

[Kelesti]

Well, Kaesebrezen, look at it this way: Shadow is the only tree that isn't screwed out of their heal if their primary nuke gets kicked/counterspelled

Elemental: Nope, can't do that. Good thing they have fire spells that aren't on a cooldown! Oh wait.
Balance: 50/50. Was I working towards Lunar or Solar Eclipse when I got kicked?

If a Balance Druid shifts out to heal (pop a Tranquility, Rebirth, I don't care what), the first thing they do is shift back in to continue their DPS (guaranteeing those raidbuffs are out is just as crucial to the raid's DPS as it is their own). Why does it seem so terrible that a Shadow Priest that just popped Divine Hymn is balanced around doing the same?

Also of note: If you're running a physical heavy team, but no Windfury/Improved Icy Talons/Swift Retribution, that Shaman no longer gets his raid-buff of choice. Shaman may be unrestricted by form, but they are more limited than Paladin blessings ever were.

While we're at it, why don't we compare the damage over the course of a fight from Shadowfiend to a Felhunter's; I mean both do shadow damage on targets we're DoT'ing, despite functioning and playing completely different, right?

[finnalblow]

your idea is terrible dont nerf my spec like what there doing to resto druids

[Zoulis]

Well since i guess this is more of a pvp discussion.
let's take each class for each bracket.
2v2: Those 3 classes are supposed to heal when they or their partner goes low ( assuming u are double DPS since it's prolly the best way to go for shadow priests moonkins and ele shammies ) but since it's 2v2 with some CC on 1 opponent and dots up on the other ( SP PoV ) ur partner can finish him off easily. A moonkin can basically kill both opponents with starfall if it's well timed. And we all know an ele shammy can global people. So yes healing is expected in 2v2 but it doesen't really "hurt" ur team.
3v3: You should have a healer ( though a really nice setup i encountered recently is boomkin/ele shammy/spriest where the dmg is insane:P ) so with a healer u won't really need to go healing mode but u need to peel off him.
5v5: You have 2 healers ( or 1 in some teams ) that again u don't really need to heal but to peel off him.

So the conclusion is that yes they are expected to heal in 2v2 , besides 2v2 though healing ur partner that is getting trained for instance is prolly worse than CCing the opponents or cause so much pressure that one of the DPSs goes defensive.
I only recently started PvP'ing as a shadowpriest so i might be wrong in these :P

Cheers
Zoulis