sargeras an old god puppet?

[Auroro]

and your prove for this is? People need to stop and look at the facts.

Here are the fact:

C'Thun is the weakest Old God in Azeroth. With the Prophecy of C'Thun tell us that there was a fight between a titan and C'Thun. C'Thun was able to kill the titan he was fighting against. It did weaken him to a point that the other titan thought he was dead.

If you look at the info, it took a group of titan to bring down one Old God.

Let look at the power level of each Old God.

5. C'Thun ("Killed")
4. Unknown (Killed)
3. Yogg-Saron (Imprison)
2. Unknown (Imprison)
1. Nightmare God/Maelstrom (Imprison)

If you read the novel, War of the Ancients, there were only three that were imprison. Those three are the most powerful Old Gods of Azeroth. At the same time in the novel, Imprison Old Gods did said that Sargeras is nothing compare to them. Sargeras is walking into a trap, it is likely that Nightmare God/Maelstrom Old God is the one that would kill the dark titan once the portal been entered by Sargeras. Elemental of surprise would been the major player to the death of Sargeras.

Sargeras did not know or have the time to fight back against the Old God.

Since we have the first well destroy, I would said that Nightmare God/Maelstrom Old God been active along with C'Thun. Yogg-Saron had to wait until the Night Elves planted a second world tree to break free. The Unknown Imprison Old God might been active as well, where you can read in the novel, Day of the Dragon.

Due to Harbinger Skyriss, we can said that there is more than 5 Old Gods. The Armies of the Old Gods is bigger than Burning Legion. Nathrezim could have gain their power to corrupt from the Old Gods that are outside of the Azeroth. Making it the Old Gods having a connection to the corruption of Sargeras. We can also said that the Elemental of Azeroth were special to the Old Gods and could deal with the right hands of Sargeras, Kil'jaeden the Deceiver, and Archimonde the Defiler.

[muxx]

im not sure if im wrong, but i remember reading in "the sundering" that sargeras was being willed to enter azeroth earlier than he needed to be by the old gods when malfurion and illidan were closing the well of eternity portal. I could have just read it wrong but if not that is a possible sign that the old gods can manipulate the titans :P

[Laukkanen]

Negridoom banned? How sad >_>.

And I for one hope that Blizzard can keep the Old Gods out from at least something. It feels like they are the reason and explanation to far too much in Azeroth so I hope Sargeras and the old Gods are kept separated.

[Deleted]

There is no "homeworld" for the Burning Legion. Its composed of countless evils Sargeras banished during his service in the Pantheon. Not to mention, they just go from world to world destroying everything in their wake. Not to mention, Sargeras was banished to the Nether.

Argus and Xoroth can be considered the homeplanets.

[Malygos The Spellweaver]

Argus and Xoroth can be considered the homeplanets.

For the Eredar, but it isn't the Legion's homeworld. Granted, its probably a hellish place (Argus), but its still not their homeworld.

[GennGreymane]

sargaras is a malfunctioning robot

sargaras: basic program.... must bring order
dread lords: hah dude u are the suxors roflwaffle wtf nub order no exist scrub
sargaras:..... but must bring order
dread lords: scrub no order wtfnub chaos more pwnzar newb rofl lamo
sargaras: /whisper aman'thal: YOU SUCK ROFL NEWB KTHXBI
sargaras: /gquit

---------- Post added 2010-07-07 at 07:51 PM ----------

ok i guess nobody liked that idea

but i do have another question/theory thing

the titans are made of metals sargeras is molten bronze aman'thul is platinum
is it possible they where created by a magically and technologically race of aliens or are they an advanced race that turned them self into metal or are they a sort of divine being that was always made of metal
and what do you think would happen if they got infected by the curse of flesh

they are advanced silicon based life forms (meaning rockish)
also this is wow nature does not apply now if u excuse me im gunna pwn this flying sting ray while flying on a dragon

[Powerogue]

some blizz member said "sargeras was corrupted by an unknown force. who dares me to use old gods?" or something along those lines.

i'm sticking with that he was corrupted by the demons he was always working to imprison, particularly the dreadlords.

[Lightfist]

The amount of people in this thread who don't know lore, but act like they do, hurts my brain.

Where do I start?

The Old God's relation to Sargeras: The Old Gods are parasitic, and rely on planets to sustain themselves. Sargeras wishes to destroy planets. They are known enemies. Harbinger Skyriss even states that "No force on this world or beyond harbors the strength to bend our knee... not even the mighty Legion!".

The Old God's power compared to Sargeras and the Legion: At first, Skyriss' quote implies that they are stronger than the Legion. However, if that was so, why would he brag about it? Why would he refer to them as "mighty"? The answer, it seems, is that he is comparing them to a higher power to brag about their own strength. But this isn't definitive proof, I know, so let's move on.

Someone stated that the Old God's armies outnumber the Burning Legion...which is a bold statement. The Burning Legion's armies are vast - vast enough to conquer countless worlds that even the Pantheon have been unable to save. To date, Azeroth is the only planet that has been able to stand up to them. However, we can assume that they have also engaged with Old God forces for control of these planets...since Azeroth is the only planet that has survived, we can assume that the Legion has won these battles.

Now let's move even FURTHER. We know that C'thun was able to defeat (if not kill) a Titan. We also know that they stated Sargeras was nothing compared to them...but how would they know? The Old Gods, as far as we can tell, are very arrogant. Would they even know how much stronger Sargeras is compared to a normal Titan? I would think not. But just how strong IS Sargeras?

He is the prime enemy of the Titans. Sargeras has been stated to make Archimonde look as a flea, in either power or size. His very presence increase natural climate by 50 degrees for up to 1000 miles. He is immune against most weaponry, and only the highest quality of gear can even scratch him. He is immune to fire and fel fire. And "the strength of 100 dragons is but a fraction of his power." He wields Gorribal, half of the most powerful weapon ever created. Combine all of this with the ability to summon nearly unlimited reinforcements to him, and you have a nearly unstoppable force worthy of the title "The Destroyer of Worlds".

So, what would the Old Gods do? Well, most of their forces wouldn't be able to hurt him, or would be busy fighting the Legion itself. We don't know if the Old Gods would actually be able to hurt Sargeras, but in any case, they would be an easy and certainly stationary target while being swarmed by his ground units.

TL;DR Sargeras is a really bad d00d. Old Gods are only bad d00ds.

[Scionni]

This is very plausible. Refering to the trilogy, War of the Ancients, the Old Gods were ultimately responsible for the coming of Sargeras; it was all part of their grand plan. Even the seemingly mighty Sargeras fell prey to the voices of the Old Gods, driving him further towards his goal of entering into Azeroth. It was implied several times within the trilogy that Sargeras' power and thus the power of the entire Burning Legion paled in comparison to the dark and terrible power of the Old Gods.

Also, it appears that the Old Gods are as numerous as their Burning Legion rivals. The encounter with the last boss in Arcatraz reveals this fact.

[Lyeranth]

Sargeras was already heading towards madness then the Nathrazeim helped him get there faster. He was going crazy because of all of the bad things he had seen, not because any old god.

[Lightfist]

This is very plausible. Refering to the trilogy, War of the Ancients, the Old Gods were ultimately responsible for the coming of Sargeras; it was all part of their grand plan. Even the seemingly mighty Sargeras fell prey to the voices of the Old Gods, driving him further towards his goal of entering into Azeroth. It was implied several times within the trilogy that Sargeras' power and thus the power of the entire Burning Legion paled in comparison to the dark and terrible power of the Old Gods.

Also, it appears that the Old Gods are as numerous as their Burning Legion rivals. The encounter with the last boss in Arcatraz reveals this fact.

First off, No. This theory is completely off.

Second off, the Old Gods sent Rhonin and Brox back in time to try and get Sargeras here...because Knaak wanted to use Rhonin. There is no other reason for this, and the entire concept is stupid.

Third, it's implied that the Old Gods are more powerful BY the Old Gods. I'm sure they're a reliable source...

[Dryade]

I will point out that Loken is a titan, and so are the rest of the figureheads intended to guard Yogg-Saron.

There is evidence to suggest it is "possible" that the Gods were the driving force behind the great Titans fall in the first place. Considering they were the ones that influenced Azshara into letting demons into the world in the first place.

It is not impossible to assume there was some form of coup-de-taunte.

Wrong, there is absolutely no evidence involving Sargeras being corrupted by Old Gods. Not to mention, Sargeras left the Pantheon before the the reforging of Azeroth.

If it wasn't for the reckless abuse of arcane magic from Azshara and her High Elves, and the Kirin Tor after The Great Sundering, The Burning Legion would never have know of Azeroth.

For the Eredar, but it isn't the Legion's homeworld. Granted, its probably a hellish place (Argus), but its still not their homeworld.

Argus is more than likely the base of operations the Legion. It is after all the home world of the Eredar, who consist of all the major leaders, and the Supreme Commander of the Burning Legion in Sargeras' absence.

[huth]

One thing you should keep in mind about the titans... there is a lot more than just the 5 in the Pantheon. Those are the strongest, and the leaders, but far from the only ones. We are talking about an entire species here, not a few individuals.

The titan killed by an old god did not even get an official name.

I'm also not so sure about Loken being a titan. From what i have seen and heard, he and the other keepers are merely titan constructs created to watch over Yogg-Saron.

And the titans could easily have destroyed the old gods... they chose not to because doing so would mean destroying Azeroth as well.

[Lyeranth]

"The Old God's relation to Sargeras: The Old Gods are parasitic, and rely on planets to sustain themselves. Sargeras wishes to destroy planets. They are known enemies. Harbinger Skyriss even states that "No force on this world or beyond harbors the strength to bend our knee... not even the mighty Legion!"."

My God is so much better than your God! Chances are the fanatical followers lied a bit.

"Now let's move even FURTHER. We know that C'thun was able to defeat (if not kill) a Titan. We also know that they stated Sargeras was nothing compared to them...but how would they know? The Old Gods, as far as we can tell, are very arrogant. Would they even know how much stronger Sargeras is compared to a normal Titan? I would think not. But just how strong IS Sargeras?"

Not entirely sure but Im fairly certain that the titan he killed was unnamed and if a titan wasnt worthy of a name, neither is his strength (relatively speaking of course)

[Son of the Third Eye]

However, we can assume that they have also engaged with Old God forces for control of these planets...since Azeroth is the only planet that has survived, we can assume that the Legion has won these battles.

I don't know how you can assume that. The Old Gods are ultimately behind the machinations of the fall of Sargeras, and there is absolutely no reason for them to engage forces especially when it's clear that should the Burning Crusade ever succeed that the Old Gods would have nothing to stop them from breaking down the barriers between worlds.

TL;DR Sargeras is a really bad d00d. Old Gods are only bad d00ds.

No, any Lovecraft inspired entity is always the ultimate bad d00d no exceptions. They are the bad d00ds of bad d00ds. They are infinite plus one. They are as powerful as a GM. They are extradimensional godmode hax manifest. Are you just not a fan of anything in the fantasy genre to ignore the general consensus that eldritch entities trumph everything including Christian God?

While Sargeras might be stronger than some of the Old Gods in single combat this can only be because Sargeras has home field advantage. Every world Sargeras visits and even Sargeras himself are legitimate entities and elements of the physical universe. Old Gods come from something beyond that - a higher plane of existence or a fourth dimension. You can "kill" them as much as you want but "killing" them in the physical universe is something they shrug off because what you "killed" isn't "them". Imagine sticking your arm through a portal and swatting blindly at whatever is on the other side - this is basically what the Old Gods are doing. No one has ever confronted them on their home plane because most likely it impossible for something from the physical universe to manifest there without being ripped apart and horribly mutated.

You just wait until the ultimate Old God is revealed to be Me'Tzan.

TL;DR Sargeras is small time, Old Gods are haxxorz

[Qtulu]

Argus and Xoroth can be considered the homeplanets.

Isn't Twisting Nether the real home of the demons? Wonder if they look totally different over there. I mean, they wouldn't really need hands or legs to move since they move freely by will? Maybe they were just giant head blobs flying around.