A Theoretical List of What Talents Will Stay or Go

[Finangus]

First, if for some bizarre reason someone either lives under a rock or doesn't read the news on the front page, read this: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Systems-Update

Now that we all know what I'm referring to, I've decided to make a list of live talents I think will either stay in each respective tree, or be tossed to the wayside. The talents that are tossed will be attained either as new passive abilities from leveling or trained skills (if I'm understanding GC correctly). I'm only analyzing the live talents, as no one knows the fate of the 'new' talents in the current beta build. Feel free to debate/discuss my assumptions.

Mods, if you feel this should be discussed in the stickies, feel free to lock it. I'm making a new thread since this will apply to all 3 trees, and thus is too much of a PITA to split into the current stickies.

STAYING
ARMS
Taste for Blood - Major game changing talent; there's no way in Hell this is being removed.
Sudden Death - See Above.
Juggernaut - Again, see Taste for Blood.
Trauma - I just don't see them making this a passive talent, it's a major debuff.
Blood Frenzy - See Above.
Second Wind - I'm thinking this one will stay, but not in it's current form, and may be moved up into the upper tiers. They want Prot warriors to be interested in some early Arms/Fury talents. This one is a potential candidate.
Unrelenting Assault - The CD reduction/damage increase portion will disappear, but the damage/healing debuff will remain; it just won't be as powerful.
Sweeping Strikes - It's a cool ability, but it's not necessary for an Arms warrior. It only is now because you need it to get MS.
Deep Wounds - I'm iffy on this one. It changes the game, but it's not 'ZOMG AWESOMESAUCE' big to me.
Bladestorm - Duh

FURY
Piercing Howl - Interesting, unique talent.
Blood Craze - It's in a similar situation as Second Wind. Will likely stay, but not as it currently is.
Death Wish - I'm betting DW will probably stay as a talent. Hard to say really.
Heroic Fury - Good, interesting talent.
Furious Attacks - I don't see them giving Fury the passive ability to inflict an MS effect with their attacks.
Rampage - No way this is leaving.
Bloodsurge - It'll stay for sure. However, I sincerely hope to God they make Slam an instant attack; that means this talent will need to change if that happens.
TG/SMF - Yes, I'm including a beta talent. The fact is that it would be highly unlikely for them to dump SMF. Anyways, these are the 31-pt'ers for Fury, so they must stay.

PROTECTION
Last Stand - C'mon, you know this one is staying put.
Improved Revenge - A talent that causes a single target attack to hit two targets is very cool, IMO. Expect it to stay, but the increased Revenge damage will probably be made baseline.
Toughness - If I read GC's post correctly, it's staying. Expect to see it reduced to 2 points, but with the same amount of benefits gained.
Improved Spell Reflection - The decreased chance for spells to hit will be gained passively, but the party wide reflect effect will remain. The name will most likely change.
Concussion Blow - Will be an optional ability; still, a good tool for tanks to have.
Gag Order - It completely changes the function of Heroic Throw and Shield Bash. It's safe.
Vigilance - Optional raid utility/extra threat ability. Perfectly fine as is.
Safeguard - Despite how much I personally dislike it, this ability does affect the dynamic of an optional ability. Will probably stay.....probably.
Warbringer - Cool ability that changes how you play.
Devastate - Staying, end of discussion.
Critical Block - This one is really hard to say. It could honestly go either way.
Sword and Board - The proc effect stays, the increased Devastate crit chance gets baked in.
Damage Shield - Stays, but is changed to reflect damage based on your AP.
Shockwave - Duh

LEAVING
Deflection/Anticipation - GC heavily hinted towards Deflection going the way of the dodo, which means Anticipation would follow.
MS/BT - Already confirmed by GC.
Flurry - I dunno, it just feels too passive to stay as a talent. It'll probably be a trained passive skill.
Iron Will/Tactical Mastery - They're just too passive to stay, IMO.
Weapon Specializations - These were already gone in alpha. Two Handed Weapon Specialization is now joining them.
Shield Specialization - Very passive, I'd be shocked if this wasn't made a passive bonus for Prot.
Shield Mastery - With the changes to how block works and the removal of SBV, this one was already in trouble. Add to that the fact that it's entirely passive.....adios amigo.
Anger Management/Endless Rage - AM has already been confirmed by GC; it only makes sense for ER to eventually be gained as a passive bonus.
Intensify Rage - Yawn, a boring, passive CD reduction talent.
The "+10% damage for 12 sec" talents - I'm willing to bet these will be trained passive skills. Hopefully, Enrage won't be as terrible as it is now.
For the rest, if it increases damage, crit chance, or reduces a CD, be prepared to give a eulogy for it come 4.0.

As you can see, I'm wagering that out of all three trees, Protection will retain the most talents. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone; Protection is widely considered to be an extremely well made and organized talent tree. Arms is decent, and Fury is just....horrible. If you were a brand new player and were to look only at the upper tiers of each tree, you would most likely assume that the Fury tree is focused on having a warrior scream at people. That's how convoluted and incoherent the design of the Fury tree is.

Anyways, thought/opinions/suggestions?

[Malorajan]

LEAVING
MS/BT - Already confirmed by GC.

wat

[Yetal]

wat

I believe he means they won't actually be talents anymore, they're abilities you get up-front for choosing the Talent tree they're normally in.

So technically, those talents ARE being removed. But the skills themselves are staying.

[Malorajan]

I believe he means they won't actually be talents anymore, they're abilities you get up-front for choosing the Talent tree they're normally in.

So technically, those talents ARE being removed. But the skills themselves are staying.

Ah, it's late and I misread it lol.

[Alianthos]

I think i can add some. I dont think Blizz is gonna trash what we saw on the Beta released tree
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior#,,12319

So we could add :

Arms :
- Disarming glare : Disarm causes a 10sec fear
- Blitz : Charge an additionnal target, could be fun for lvling and early BG's.

Improved rage, Anger management, Endless rage are probably goners, i think most Arms talent are getting a highest rage generation from mastery.

Fury :
- Impending victory, chance to have a Victory rush proc
- Flurry (not seeing this one going, pretty unique)
- Improved Pummel, to encourage the use of interrupts

Prot :
- Sweep and clear
- Focused rage
- Shield mastery, it's also a CD reduction, i see it staying.
- Improved bloorage : +50% rage is actually quite huge, maybe it's gonna move in another tree

Critical block is going into Mastery, as well as Vitality.

[pavl]

I thought GC said the Mortal Strike is staying but improved MS is out.

[Finangus]

I thought GC said the Mortal Strike is staying but improved MS is out.

It's automatically given to you if you pick Arms as your spec at lvl 10. It's no longer a talent. The same goes for Bloodthirst.

But yes, Improved Mortal Strike is out, and I'm sure most other "Improved X" talents will be also.

[Forx]

Vigilance - Optional raid utility/extra threat ability. Perfectly fine as is

As far as I can recall they are somewhat keeping this, but revamping it. Making it grant additional Vengeance (the prot warrior Mastery) to make it viable to put on the maintank while you are offtanking for example.

[Alianthos]

As far as I can recall they are somewhat keeping this, but revamping it. Making it grant additional Vengeance (the prot warrior Mastery) to make it viable to put on the maintank while you are offtanking for example.

Yeah, i think they say Vigilance could enventually transfer a portion of our Vengeance buff, so it could be a nice TPS boost on the MT, or on one very good DPS (assuming it doesnt fuck up your own TPS).

[Chiruru]

Fury will also propably keep that Talent, that added damage to Sunder, or not?