FoK still 80? Seriously???

[shadstep]

You seem to be implying it by saying "people will spend two weeks there, who cares if it sucks or not"

no, I just called you on over emphasizing it and now you are trying to talk around it

Yes it is. Think about it. What is in WoW? You have pvp, raiding, and leveling, and that's pretty much it. Some people are altoholics and spend almost 100% of thier time leveling.

there is only so much leveling you can do before you have an 80 of each class

Unless you're a Blizz employee I don't think either of us are qualified to give a difinitive answer on the subject. It's cute that you're trying though.

you don't need to be a blizzard employee to comprehend how much time they spend on creating new unique raids, 5 mans, and battlegrounds (and to a lesser extent arenas and dailies) and then to be constantly balancing and rebalancing all of those things

also:

It's cute that you're trying though.

Blizzard isn't dictated by some sort of rigid lore timeline. They are not revamping vanilla because of the cataclysm, they're using the cataclysm as an excuse to revamp vanilla.

They will probably be comparable, at least at launch.

Leveling is a huge part of WoW which is why they went back and completely revamped 1-60 instead of simply tacking on another 10 levels at the endgame.

hypocrite much?

no reliance on mana - what's the point of this?

have you ever leveled a caster?

no cooldown - Many other aoes have no cooldown

they all cost mana or affect a limited amount of targets

but its cooldown is effectively 5 seconds for energy regen.

which is offset by alot of talents and is still much shorter than any other AoE cd

arguably the hardest hitting in game - maybe pre-nerf...

they would only need to nerf it if they reduced its level req, Id prefer a harder hitting AoE at 80 than an unnecessary one for leveling

we are a melee class - so what? melees don't get to aoe now all of a sudden?

not spammable, high damage, capless ones

no target cap - your point? Blizzard doesn't have a target cap either...

it also requires an inefficient use of mana, is cast by a class that is alot squishier vs melee than us, and is channeled

[Oak]

i see what this is. and its not going to happen.
why would all need to have aoe its fine like it is. it was awesome when classes actually had a role like aoe not like now when all classes got some aoe. its not needed for all classes.

and why would you want aoe as a rogue for leveling anyways. havent had it for many years and it have been working fine. but now when some other classes gets it you feel like you have been unfair treated. its just an abillity you dont really need that much. rogues had always been a single target dps unthil wotlk and they were and still is awesome to it. even when leveling. if you want to do most dps on trash in an instance while leveling i suggest you reroll to another class if thats what its about

[Lemons]

There is only so much leveling you can do before you have an 80 of each class

Which is...quite a bit...especially if you enjoy the ride. There is also only so much raiding you can do before you get all the gear, and only so much pvping you can do before you get all the arena gear.

you don't need to be a blizzard employee to comprehend how much time they spend on creating new unique raids, 5 mans, and battlegrounds (and to a lesser extent arenas and dailies) and then to be constantly balancing and rebalancing all of those things

You still have no idea how much time they're spending rebalancing 1-60, revamping old dungeons and zones, and retuning the leveling experience in general. You'd have to be a Blizz employee to know that..

have you ever leveled a caster?

I have a level 80 mage, and drinking between pulls has not been a problem. No trash pull lasts long enough for you to go oom on it unless it's some sort of crazy gauntlet.

they all cost mana or affect a limited amount of targets

Different AoEs are different? Costing mana isn't a huge deal here...that's just the resource system of the class...

they would only need to nerf it if they reduced its level req, Id prefer a harder hitting AoE at 80 than an unnecessary one for leveling

How can you be sure of this? You do realize that at low levels you're using low level weapons, right? It would be weaker by default.

not spammable, high damage, capless ones

I'm still having trouble seeing the difference between fan and Blizzard or Rain of Fire...except the latter cost mana which honestly isn't a huge deal. And Cleave, which is apparently burdened by being capped at 3 targets, still does alright for itself and is fairly spammable.

it also requires an inefficient use of mana, is cast by a class that is alot squishier vs melee than us, and is channeled

No...it's a very effecient use of mana for the damage it does to multiple mobs, just like fan is only an efficient use of energy when used vs. 4+ mobs.

[Deleted]

Which is...quite a bit...especially if you enjoy the ride. There is also only so much raiding you can do before you get all the gear, and only so much pvping you can do before you get all the arena gear.



You still have no idea how much time they're spending rebalancing 1-60, revamping old dungeons and zones, and retuning the leveling experience in general. You'd have to be a Blizz employee to know that..



I have a level 80 mage, and drinking between pulls has not been a problem. No trash pull lasts long enough for you to go oom on it unless it's some sort of crazy gauntlet.



Different AoEs are different? Costing mana isn't a huge deal here...that's just the resource system of the class...



How can you be sure of this? You do realize that at low levels you're using low level weapons, right? It would be weaker by default.



I'm still having trouble seeing the difference between fan and Blizzard or Rain of Fire...except the latter cost mana which honestly isn't a huge deal. And Cleave, which is apparently burdened by being capped at 3 targets, still does alright for itself and is fairly spammable.



No...it's a very effecient use of mana for the damage it does to multiple mobs, just like fan is only an efficient use of energy when used vs. 4+ mobs.

Mate I've read most of your posts in this topic, and I support you all the way, but I suggest you stop arguing with that troll who's only writing the 1st thing that crosses his mind, just so he can say something opposite,even if it's incorrect, so once again ,Don't feed the troll'

[Neliah]

They reduced lvl req on most aoes that classes get (cat swipe, 71 to 36 for example) and some of them already had aoes at these lower lvls, but rogues are still lvl 80 req for aoe???

Lol, I was actually raging about that when I leveled my rogue. It really does give one a feeling of not beeing a part of fights or even being IN the group when you can't do anything but singletarget or just not being good enough, specially when you're in a group with a warlock and a mage.... How silly it might sound, I totally agree that the level restriction is pretty much BS if they keep it at level 80, but having that said - It's still Beta. Maybe Blizz have some plans who knows

[Gestopft]

So wait... doing a low level dungeon is stressful because you can't aoe trash even though you can easily out dps most other classes on the bosses?

Don't get me wrong, I agree that if swipe and other aoe abilities are lowered in the level that they are obtained then FoK should be as well. Your arguments about low dps on trash don't support the topic. Trash is trash and while it can be important, being able to aoe in low level dungeons should be a minor inconvenience and not the 'omg a rogue is in the group wtf are we going to do now' bullshit that you're claiming it to be.

I keep bringing it up, and here I go again.

Most lower level dungeons are about five minutes of trash leading to 15 seconds of a boss that has no complicated mechanics. Until you get to UK, or maybe some in the mid 60's, your trash dps contributes a hell of a lot more to the run than the awesomeness you bring for the short amount of time that the boss is alive.

[shadstep]

Which is...quite a bit...especially if you enjoy the ride. There is also only so much raiding you can do before you get all the gear, and only so much pvping you can do before you get all the arena gear.

that doesnt change the fact that the vast majority of players will spend the vast majority of their time at 80

You still have no idea how much time they're spending rebalancing 1-60, revamping old dungeons and zones, and retuning the leveling experience in general. You'd have to be a Blizz employee to know that..

the mere fact that they balance the game around max level pvp/pve is more than enough to offset any arguments you make about the amount of time the supposedly spend doing what

I have a level 80 mage, and drinking between pulls has not been a problem. No trash pull lasts long enough for you to go oom on it unless it's some sort of crazy gauntlet.

so we can assume that you leveled up by spamming blizzard or arcane explosion?

because if mana isnt an issue like you insinuate that would be the fastest way

seriously thought you aren't about to convince anyone that lowbie casters have the mana efficiency to continually cast AoE just move on

Different AoEs are different?

and they all have a limiting factor to keep them from being IMBA in a solo situation

FoK doesnt

Costing mana isn't a huge deal here...that's just the resource system of the class...

it actually is a huge deal, whether you are willing to admit it or not

How can you be sure of this? You do realize that at low levels you're using low level weapons, right? It would be weaker by default.

your also going to be fighting targets scaled downed mobs... killing npcs isnt inherently longer at low levels, and in many cases (see: the lowest levels) killing mobs is faster

wow basics: learn them

I'm still having trouble seeing the difference between fan and Blizzard or Rain of Fire...except the latter cost mana which honestly isn't a huge deal.

mana aside:
mages/locks = squishy
rogues = extremely effective solo melee tanks

And Cleave, which is apparently burdened by being capped at 3 targets, still does alright for itself and is fairly spammable.

alright =/= imba

and if you cant see how an uncapped FoK is alot stronger than a 3 target capped cleave, I really don't see how you hope to support your argument

No...it's a very effecient use of mana for the damage it does to multiple mobs, just like fan is only an efficient use of energy when used vs. 4+ mobs.

not when those 4 mobs are almost guaranteed to kill you with poor/limited survivability cds, especially when you lose 1/2 the cast time from hits taken, that coupled with poor mana/manaregen means a dead or OOM caster after a few pulls

---------- Post added 2010-07-27 at 01:53 PM ----------

Mate I've read most of your posts in this topic, and I support you all the way, but I suggest you stop arguing with that troll who's only writing the 1st thing that crosses his mind, just so he can say something opposite,even if it's incorrect, so once again ,Don't feed the troll'

so basically what you are saying is that you know you're griefing, have nothing else to contribute, and now are just trying to save face?

kay

poking holes in your poor support doesnt make me a troll
obvious defense mechanism is painfully obvious

[Unlii]

I have played a rogue since WoW's release. I still play that rogue today. I plan to start a new rogue when cataclysm comes out. And I will continue to play rogues till WoW dies. I think FoK is very OP as an AoE. My favorite example of a now situation. Spec down assassination for the 2 energy everytime you get a crit then walts into Onyxia's lair. When the welps come the only thing slowing down your dps is global cooldown. You actually gain more energy then you lose. FoK also applies poison. I remember a time when rogue AoE was tab targeting and putting deadly on each enemy then hitting blade flurry. When wrath first came out I saw FoK and complained that I didnt have it at a lower level then I got to 80 and complaining stopped. If you want AoE at a lower level then 80 hit blade flurry and killing spree. Its a little more "fair".

/thread

[Deleted]

the mere fact that they balance the game around max level pvp/pve is more than enough to offset any arguments you make about the amount of time the supposedly spend doing what

so we can assume that you leveled up by spamming blizzard or arcane explosion?

because if mana isnt an issue like you insinuate that would be the fastest way

seriously thought you aren't about to convince anyone that lowbie casters have the mana efficiency to continually cast AoE just move on



and they all have a limiting factor to keep them from being IMBA in a solo situation

FoK doesnt

it actually is a huge deal, whether you are willing to admit it or not

your also going to be fighting targets scaled downed mobs... killing npcs isnt inherently longer at low levels, and in many cases (see: the lowest levels) killing mobs is faster

wow basics: learn them


mana aside:
mages/locks = squishy
rogues = extremely effective solo melee tanks

alright =/= imba

and if you cant see how an uncapped FoK is alot stronger than a 3 target capped cleave, I really don't see how you hope to support your argument


not when those 4 mobs are almost guaranteed to kill you with poor/limited survivability cds, especially when you lose 1/2 the cast time from hits taken, that coupled with poor mana/manaregen means a dead or OOM caster after a few pulls

---------- Post added 2010-07-27 at 01:53 PM ----------




poking holes in your poor support doesnt make me a troll
obvious defense mechanism is painfully obvious

Obvious troll is obvious.

PS: Rogue isn't 'squishy' when evasion is on CD? Are you trying to imply to rogues would lvl by aoe grinding? lolwut you obviously never pulled more then 2-3 mobs at the time as rogue.

[Annoying]

Dead horse.
Not much left to be gained here, and it's just getting ugly at this point.
/lock.