No UA, no pummel for arms?

[Galvangar]

UA was half-assed and didnt really work with the haste in the game, like the rest of our abilities.

Is blizz trying to make us worse than our current situation of "get tunneled till dead"?
Less arp, less dmg over all, less rage to work with.
Meanwhile every other class, esp casters are getting huge buffs. DK's look like theyre going to replace us entirely pretty soon.

What will warriors bring in cata that puts them above the other classes with our same abilities?
What do we bring now?

CC the warrior and kill his friends, or just kill the warrior if youve got spellcleave or a disarm comp like MrP

[Holse]

They've stated that they're going to buff warrior damage from Mortal Strike a lot, seeing as the MS debuff is no longer unique... So I'm guessing arms might get higher damage and thereby be competitive... Other than that... you've got charge!

[Runicblood]

what's UA? >_>

EDIT:
Just looked it up.
Big deal, you guys won't 3 shot everyone with bladestorm anymore. QQ more.

[Galvangar]

They've stated that they're going to buff warrior damage from Mortal Strike a lot, seeing as the MS debuff is no longer unique... So I'm guessing arms might get higher damage and thereby be competitive... Other than that... you've got charge!

Well they also said they were going to make Mortal strike THE MORTAL STRIKE, which...obviously it isnt.
If they change it back to double weapon dmg+w/e it might be ok, but I suspect nerfs will accompany it.


Charge is sooo useful!!! OMG I love seeing
You cant do that while rootedx3 on my screen!

what's UA? >_>

EDIT:
Just looked it up.
Big deal, you guys won't 3 shot everyone with bladestorm anymore. QQ more.

That didnt even make sense.

[catablitz]

What does UA have to do with haste? Haste is the worst stat for arms. I am pretty sure they will merge the benefit of the talent to the base ability like they did with improved MS.
I dont think blizzard will try to deteriorate any class. The arp change will affect every physical, not only arms warriors. Impying less damage overall is trolling. IIRC they did say that MS will hit significantly harder in cata. As for the less rage we have to see if they change anything with the formula. As for what we bring..we still havent seen the final form of leap...imo chill and wait.

[Holse]

Well they also said they were going to make Mortal strike THE MORTAL STRIKE, which...obviously it isnt.
If they change it back to double weapon dmg+w/e it might be ok, but I suspect nerfs will accompany it.


Charge is sooo useful!!! OMG I love seeing
You cant do that while rootedx3 on my screen!

They do seem to change their minds rapidly at the moment, but regardless of that, I still think warriors will be in a fairly good place, since I suspect blizzard are scared that they might mess up and have weak warriors in the first part of cata as they have had in vanilla, TBC and WotLK.
On the case of charge, I was joking But charge and intercept are both valuable tools and shouldn't really be underestimated as much as they are - not many classes have gap closers in the same way.

And for catablitz, he's talking about how it's impossible to pummel or UA someone with a 1 sec cast time when the human reaction time (at best) is 0,2 seconds, accompanied by lag + stance shift to pummel, which is why the abilities look good on paper, but are not quite as good in reality..

[Deleted]

When Warriors lost their 50% MS I thought the existence of UA compensated for that loss.

Now with UA gone...Warriors are going to need a lot of compensation.

[Galvangar]

What does UA have to do with haste? Haste is the worst stat for arms. I am pretty sure they will merge the benefit of the talent to the base ability like they did with improved MS.
I dont think blizzard will try to deteriorate any class. The arp change will affect every physical, not only arms warriors. Impying less damage overall is trolling. IIRC they did say that MS will hit significantly harder in cata. As for the less rage we have to see if they change anything with the formula. As for what we bring..we still havent seen the final form of leap...imo chill and wait.

Haste as in, you cant UA fast casts because of the haste.
Like you cant bash/reflect them either.


ARP wont effect every class as much as arms.
DK's shadow/frost dmg.
Rogues, bleeds and envenom. Rogue bleed's can crit btw. I love getting 1k ticks!
Pallies that stack ARP now will actually stack a stat that benefits them...so thats kinda like a huge buff for the idiots.

Less rage is a give-in, they're "fixing" rage again. If you were around for the TBC "fix" youd understand why all the old warriors are crying. Even in the best case scenario, they normalize it.
No more 28-30 rage per swing like now, prolly 25 standard. Thats less rage, then with this new Inner rage crap, god forbid we hit 100 rage from a crit, or we were setting up some burst. 2 moves and uve blown ur shit.

The final form of leap will only make me more enraged.
>It might do damage, it might not
>It might share a cd with charge, or intercept
>It might BLAH BLAH BLAH

If it shares a CD, its useless.
If it doesnt break roots+slows, its useless.
If it doesnt do damage, its useless.

Btw, they need to remove the dmg on intercept. Its truly pathetic.

[catablitz]

Well they did say that they intend to 'balance' the MS effect and we have to live with it. I agree it is dissapointing to have your core mechanics changed or even shared. The problem is that they adopted the logic of min/maxing everything to the last detail and even if 1 class had a 5% better MS effect it would cause unbalance. As they said they do want our MS to be the signature ability of the tree and they will buff the output. The next discussion topic will be : why does CS hit less than MS and MS hits less than SS? Homogenisation and recycling is inevitable when you seek balance but the problem is that you will never find balance by default.

[Galvangar]

Well they did say that they intend to 'balance' the MS effect and we have to live with it. I agree it is dissapointing to have your core mechanics changed or even shared. The problem is that they adopted the logic of min/maxing everything to the last detail and even if 1 class had a 5% better MS effect it would cause unbalance. As they said they do want our MS to be the signature ability of the tree and they will buff the output. The next discussion topic will be : why does CS hit less than MS and MS hits less than SS? Homogenisation and recycling is inevitable when you seek balance but the problem is that you will never find balance by default.

Warriors should hit for more, because most of their fight is spent in a root or turned into CC collection plate.

[Chamass]

So basically OP is saying:
OMG OMG they are changing my class!!!! /emo

M8, this is a VERY EARLY release still, the new talenttrees aren't even implemented (or they might and i could be a day behind :P)

Either way...
if u are honestly relying on 2 talents atm in pvp, then u need to accept that blizzard INTENDS to screw over this fail-burst pvp we got going and it is supposed to be better...
Nothing is finalized, at all.
So until it is, just BELIEVE blizzard will balance ur damage and abilities to not completely block warriors out of pvp.. cause that wont happen
Blizzard always has been proud of its warrior class, and arms traditionally has been the go-to pvp spec
Cataclysm will destroy the world as we know it, not the world as blizzard intends it ;P

[Galvangar]

So basically OP is saying:
OMG OMG they are changing my class!!!! /emo

M8, this is a VERY EARLY release still, the new talenttrees aren't even implemented (or they might and i could be a day behind :P)

Either way...
if u are honestly relying on 2 talents atm in pvp, then u need to accept that blizzard INTENDS to screw over this fail-burst pvp we got going and it is supposed to be better...
Nothing is finalized, at all.
So until it is, just BELIEVE blizzard will balance ur damage and abilities to not completely block warriors out of pvp.. cause that wont happen
Blizzard always has been proud of its warrior class, and arms traditionally has been the go-to pvp spec
Cataclysm will destroy the world as we know it, not the world as blizzard intends it ;P

What dark cave in hell are you living in?

Prot is the warrior's Go-to-spec for pvp.
Arms warriors get screwed over in every sort of way possible, from getting tunneled with no recourse-to-Getting cc'd with no recourse

Once the other team has decided what they want to do with you, you have no choice in the matter.

"ITS STILL EARLY" weakest cop-out ever invented.

[Deleted]

Warriors should hit for more, because most of their fight is spent in a root or turned into CC collection plate.

You forget what Blizz said some time ago. Classes without MS effects SHOULD hit for more, to compensate for the LACK of said MS effect. Its fully logical that warriors and rogues who have a 50% healing reduction SHOULD do 50% less dmg than those without, because if they did the same dmg as those without, well, then the Mortal Strike debuff would effectively double their dmg done, as it takes twice the amount of healing to "close the wounds".

[Chamass]

I cba to quote it for you, look thru the blue's urself
But blizzard actually stated about 500 times that this CC and nuke PVP is not what they are intending, cause it screws over so many specs
Also they want prot to be usable in pvp, but they made clear that it is not their main priority

U need to get rid of this CC and dispel mindset. What ur saying is "Cataclysm talents and skills wont work in WOTLK PVP".. no it doesnt. The problem is the WOTLK PVP tho, not the warrior talents and skills.
By the time cata goes live, if ur gonna be fighting a pure CC/Dispel Team ur gonna be laughing at them for being absolute fail, while u can actually kill stuff. Instead of the current /afk u can do cause theres no way ull kill something that can juggle u around indefinitly

[catablitz]

There is no need to make it more complicated than it actually is. OP's argument is every warrior's argument: It is extremely annoying to spend most of the time controlled, and that goes for everyone not only our class. Being CCed means practically that even if you go afk for the duration it will have no impact on the game, this is unacceptable and obviously not funny.

However goal is to find a balance for who will have the upper hand. You have a melee and a caster. The melee wants to stack toe to toe and unleash his power and the caster wants to controll the distance. If the melee had the upper hand on distance and controll then his output should be like half if not less. In that scenario the next argument would be 'wtf I cant kill a mage after hitting him for 20 secs in melee range'. Just imagine the game without snares,roots,stuns,knockbacks and cc in general..it cant happen so the question is just who wins more of the situation.

[Untoldblasphemy]

Warriors should hit for more, because most of their fight is spent in a root or turned into CC collection plate.

Just goes out to show how well you know the game. This is exactly the problem with warriors. If by some chance, they manage to run rampant, they will tear you to pieces. I cannot plan all my arena teams so as to have a druid(resto preferably) and/or a mage just to keep a potential warrior in check, can I? What you are speaking of is bad design, simple as that. And because you fail to see the obvious problems with what you suggested, everything you bitch about should be disregarded also. And as always, I can bet my ass that you arent in the beta. Even if you are, not everything is implemented, nor is there any serious testing going on with the major changes in the next build. Which in turn, means that you cannot base your opinion on anything other than current gameplay, which is... Well, ignorant, yet again.

[herpecin]

if you had actually read all of the what blues have written instead of just skimming to warrior changes seeing something you disagreed with and making a post about it, you would see that you are taking this way out of context.

they said that since the they introduced arenas there has been an arms race going on between control effect, and freedom effects. they do not like that model and are beginning a disarmament so to speak. they take out your ability to control other players, now classes dont need as many moves to regain control.

as was said before you are trying to add a very very small portion of changes they have coming for PvP in cata, to how PvP works in Wrath. thats like trying to figure out what happens in a book by reading 2 random pages from the NEXT one in the series.

[Galvangar]

Just goes out to show how well you know the game. This is exactly the problem with warriors. If by some chance, they manage to run rampant, they will tear you to pieces. I cannot plan all my arena teams so as to have a druid(resto preferably) and/or a mage just to keep a potential warrior in check, can I? What you are speaking of is bad design, simple as that. And because you fail to see the obvious problems with what you suggested, everything you bitch about should be disregarded also. And as always, I can bet my ass that you arent in the beta. Even if you are, not everything is implemented, nor is there any serious testing going on with the major changes in the next build. Which in turn, means that you cannot base your opinion on anything other than current gameplay, which is... Well, ignorant, yet again.

You just made no sense, in that entire post.
Seamlessly jumping from point to point, skipping beats and entire arguements to end up where you wanted to be.
Insulting me.

GG.

[Untoldblasphemy]

And you call skipping beats and arguments what? The fact that warriors do annihilate if they aren't kept in check? Get a friend or two and try it - duel, world arena, as long as you aren't cc'd you will be a much bigger threat than any other dps that can freely do their thing. Unrelenting Assault + Mortal Strike, although, I am not sure if they stack in such a way, is already 25% reduction than anything anyone else has. Plus really, do you need proof? Soon enough, if warrior damage is raised even more because of this reason (and some brilliant developer already did this, because the warrior class is balanced around being in CC most of the time), combos with multiple paladins and a warrior will apear and since there are obviously people that are incapable of thinking for themselves, I will explain it - dispel and freedom will keep the warrior up and running at all times and he will chop stuff. Which will spawn other combos with CCs like cyclone that are not dispelabe by cleanse or freedom, creating a vicious circle, that will ruin the metagame. And oh miracle, have you seen a lumberjack with any melee other than a warrior? And ofcourse, the best lumberjack is ... dispel cleave. It has already happened and if you insist on doing it further, I have bad news for you. Be insulted as much as you like. Although, maybe it would be better if you are ashamed rather than insulted after making such a stupid claim.

[herpecin]

just a little pointer for your future on the internet untold, break your posts up so they are easier to read. typically no more then 3 or 4 lines until you give a break line. makes it much easier to read that way.