Sharpened Twilight Scale

[Chamass]

This is probably as stupid as saying "warrior upgrade is a warrior upgrade" and "bis is bis" when talking about http://www.wowhead.com/item=50733 and a warrior demanding it over a hunter.

but i am really suprised about 4 pages troll-feeding for some random lolret with his "omg i gotz teh trinehhhhht!!!!" attitude ^^

First off i meant in the context of the first post :P Hes not in a situation where raiddps matters enough to justify not doing this the fair way

Second, a BIS trinket that is slightly worse for a paladin then for other classes, is a different story from a warrior wanting to take a AGILITY/ARP Bow from a hunter :P

[Ubick]

Darn right, h4rr0d.

[Requital]

Yeah, like I said.. Nice words and all.
But nobody I would trust on their word has ever seen that.
So anything to prove that? Or do you just mean that you have seen that once and now act like everyone does it?
People are selfish and raiding is not a gearcheck anymore.




Sigh, facepalm and more of that stuff.
There is no boss ingame where you wipe because you gave this trinket to a ret instead of a hunter.
Luckily we have a beautifull system called DKP.. If a hunter really wants it, he will bid more ^^
And if he cannot afford it, that means that he didn't raid as much. So it should go to the ret anyway.

So wait if raiding is no longer a gear check for you to say that you either killed LK Heroic or you are talking out of your ass. However DKP is terrible and there are a number of Heroic fights where A few extra hundred dps from a hunter/rogue/warrior/druid/dk would make the difference between a wipe and a kill however that is mainly on heroic fights which sure if you don't do those than it's not a gear check.

A Ret taking that trinket over a physical class would be like a fury warrior taking TaJ over a Ret.

[Opkorean]

holy shit will you people take a look at the facts? if you look at the BiS list (from several sources) for a end game ret pally heroic STS is BiS next to tiny abom. just because you would be mad if a ret paladin took it from you because it has static ArP on it. QQ more. the fact is that proc makes it BiS for basically all melee/physical dps classes, not the ArP. stop looking at the arp and look at the proc. clearly all you non paladins out there are selfish, and just want that trinket for yourselves. look more at the proc not the arp

TL/DR stop being selfish and look at the proc not the ArP, clearly its BiS

[Requital]

holy shit will you people take a look at the facts? if you look at the BiS list (from several sources) for a end game ret pally heroic STS is BiS next to tiny abom. just because you would be mad if a ret paladin took it from you because it has static ArP on it. QQ more. the fact is that proc makes it BiS for basically all melee/physical dps classes, not the ArP. stop looking at the arp and look at the proc. clearly all you non paladins out there are selfish, and just want that trinket for yourselves. look more at the proc not the arp

TL/DR stop being selfish and look at the proc not the ArP, clearly its BiS

Clearly you're an idiot, " IF " big if there he had posted an Armory with a TaJ and Scale no one would have said anything at all. But the fact he doesn't even have the first BiS trinket to make the scale BiS shows lack of understanding for his class and makes him look like a clueless wonder so people qq about it. He may in fact be smart about his class and forgot to equip his TaJ but boasting about something that is mediocre for us when he doesn't even have what is BiS for us just makes 0 sense.

[highwind01]

First off i meant in the context of the first post :P Hes not in a situation where raiddps matters enough to justify not doing this the fair way

Second, a BIS trinket that is slightly worse for a paladin then for other classes, is a different story from a warrior wanting to take a AGILITY/ARP Bow from a hunter :P

nope

1. raiddps does always matter

2. it isnt "slighty worse" for lolret, it is "only good" because of its overwhelming itemlevel.
armor penetration is BY FAR the worst damage stat for lolret, it is not "slightly behind" crit/haste/whatever, its far away (I guess gemming AP or even agi would still be superior to gemming arp for ret).

and following your (or some others) argumentation there is no technical difference between a lolret getting the trinket over a arp-hardcapping class and a warrior getting the crossbow over a hunter...
is the trinket bis/nonheroic bis for ret ? yes it is
is the crossbow bis/nonheroic bis for warriors ? yes it is
does this trinket give arp-hardcapping classes a much higher dps gain than rets get ? yes it does
does the crossbow give hunters a much higher dps gain than warriors get ? yes it does
do lolrets have other options which are only slightly behind ? yes they do (herkuml, DC/DV, WFS)
do warriors have other options which are only slightly behind ? yes they do (Stakethrower and others)


EDIT:
and before there is some specilation about me seeing this only from a warriors pov and beeing a whiny "class-nazi" of my own class (because of the chosen example)...
i play unholy dk myself (and i guess i do this quite well as i got our guilds first shadowmourne which was NOT decided through dkp!) and although dbw was unholy bis trinket back when icc startet i passed the first two of them to a warrior and a feral druid (though i had more dkp at both times), just because they had more use out of them. i also passed our first heroic-dbw to a hunter who played surv before and recently switched to mm (because we need the buff) and didnt even have the normal version.
sometimes it is more satisfying to have loot distributed meaningful rather than egoistical, you should just give it a try...

[Requital]

No, dkp is the best system around.

But tell me, is TAJ the best in slot trinket for a warrior?

No just like the scale isn't BiS for a Ret without a TaJ!

[Draqn]

EDIT:
and before there is some specilation about me seeing this only from a warriors pov and beeing a whiny "class-nazi" of my own class (because of the chosen example)...
i play unholy dk myself (and i guess i do this quite well as i got our guilds first shadowmourne which was NOT decided through dkp!) and although dbw was unholy bis trinket back when icc startet i passed the first two of them to a warrior and a feral druid (though i had more dkp at both times), just because they had more use out of them. i also passed our first heroic-dbw to a hunter who played surv before and recently switched to mm (because we need the buff) and didnt even have the normal version.
sometimes it is more satisfying to have loot distributed meaningful rather than egoistical, you should just give it a try...

omg you took shadowmourne over a warrior who can fully use the ARP OMG THINK OF THE RAID DPS

[Requital]

omg you took shadowmourne over a warrior who can fully use the ARP OMG THINK OF THE RAID DPS

Going back to the RAID DPS side, Shadowmourne is a bigger RAID DPS increase in the hands of a Ret than any other class.

[Scifix]

Like so many before has said, you cost your guild some dps, the war token, DC/V and Taj are so much better, and i guess HC WFS is up there aswell, since it has crit instead of that useless armor pen

[Requital]

You have two trinket slots, so it actually IS the best in slot for your second trinket slot.
So is TAJ the BiS trinket in the second trinket slot? Don't think so..


Also Scifix, like even more people said before: Do not deny the fact that it IS the best in slot trinket.

No as a matter of fact it is not BiS for the 2nd Trinket slot, The Trinket list looks something like this.

Heroic TaJ -> TaJ -> Heroic DC/DV -> Heroic Scale -> Heroic WFS -> DC/DV -> Scale

So what that means is the 245 DC/DV is actually equal DPS to the 271 Scale for a Ret, So an item 26 ilevels higher is the same DPS which can only mean a class that gets full use out of that trinket will gain more overall DPS. Personally my only complaint is he is posting about getting a trinket that is a mediocre upgrade and doesn't have a TaJ and that makes him look bad.

[Requital]

So you swapped 2 trinkets around and that somehow makes me lying, Sorry other way around scrub DC/DV > Scale

[ymirsson]

am i mistaken, or did that ret paladin just came in to tell us, that an Ilvl 271 trinket is good?
or was it just some kind of bragging?

[Requital]

[glowpipe]

You have a helluvalot better options out there.

From death's choice to tiny-abomination in a jar to even herkuml war token. You actually cost your guild some dps by not giving it to an mm hunter, feral druid or dps warrior and I find it hard to believe you couldn't get any of the above 3 mentioned trinkets.

All in all, good job getting something that any person with half a brain or any spread sheet would have told you is NOT BIS for a ret pally.

Where is the Combat rogue love ? -.-

And yeah. Its retarded to give this to a ret. Same with DBW

Its like giving Melee weapons to hunters over melee or Guns to melee over hunters.

You're only showing us that you suck at the game and take items becouse you are greedy.
Good players take items that is best for their class.

[Requital]

Looks it's simple it is a good upgrade for him. In a pug I would probably take it as well, Raid progression never but none the less not having a TaJ is his ultimate problem here not that he got a Scale and the WFS+TaJ would be better so the scale would go to waste.

[DaGhostDS]

who give a damn.. gear reset in a few months anyway

[Nikoll]

Where is the Combat rogue love ? -.-

And yeah. Its retarded to give this to a ret. Same with DBW

Its like giving Melee weapons to hunters over melee or Guns to melee over hunters.

You're only showing us that you suck at the game and take items becouse you are greedy.
Good players take items that is best for their class.

so...you calling him a good player than?

[Badpaladin]

The term "BiS is BiS" is sort of stupid sometimes. Heroic Twighlight Scale, assuming every other piece of gear is BiS since the list is a collective, is a little over 20 DPS better than Heroic DC/DV. Requitla's graph is showing DC/DV as higher because his gear is not BiS(ie not shadow mourne) so he's missing a decent chunk of ArP, and that's what pulls the trinket over.

For Grant(I don't have RAWR downloaded), I'm going to assume it was somewhere around a 200 dps increase, give or take like....20 or 30 to be generous(based off Reqtuial's graph). I'm just of the opinion that there were people in the raid that would see a DPS increase of over 200. It's over with so there's not a point in trying to say "gawd you're so bad give that trinket back hurr hurr hurr" but the fact remains that it's not really that amazing of a trinket for ret, it's just decent.

And Kanodo, I'm not sure what's "nice words" about it. You clearly have never been in a progression guild that takes progression semi-seriously(this generally refers to time spent in raids, not spending 800 hours a week raiding). They don't just free roll a bunch of crap to people and let them make their own, selfish decisions. If you're so desperate for proof go apply to one and find out yourself.

[Ronark]

To placate all ignorant trolls.

Don't say that word!

Inb4 troll.

Stop saying the word! The word we cannot hear!