why can paladins need on non tank 1 handers

[jereminion]

hello we all know that blizzard makes horrible illogical mistakes like realid on forums, isnt it time to ask them to change paladins being allowed to roll on dps 1 handers? there are plently of defense 1 handers for tanking. they just take the 1h dps weapons from people who actually use it and sell them for 20g

[lancore89]

Ever heard of threat?

[takolin]

PvP?

[jereminion]

paladins...having trouble with threat....did you buy TBC and WOTLK yet?

[Deleted]

The game doesn't take spec into account does it?

I've picked up SP 1 hander for my holy offspec whilst tanking without a problem.

In which case in your example, it would be because a pally can use any one of the three, the issue of rolling offspec in your situation is a different matter.

[Deleted]

Edit: Correction. Seems i'm full of shit!

[Gilian]

Indeed. Fact of the matter is that once you reach the required crit avoidance for tanking, there's little benefit to taking a tanking 1h, besides a bit of extra stam, as opposed to a lot of extra offensive stats.

I use Bloodvenom Blade from ICC25. It was after i'd won it that our ex-DK said "oh, i'm going frost DW DPS". In the end, he left us a few weeks later, and i'm kinda glad i didn't pass it to him after he acted like such a jackass to us after leaving. I'm still using that weapon over anything else, because although there's not threat issues, having a TPS-focused weapon gives me much more threat than a tanking weapon would.

And you never heard of avoidance?
Do you actually re-read what you type or listen to what you are saying? You say there are no threat issues but you still choose for threat instead of avoidance. That's just plain stupid. Sorry.

[xxAkirhaxx]

And you never heard of avoidance?
Do you actually re-read what you type or listen to what you are saying? You say there are no threat issues but you still choose for threat instead of avoidance. That's just plain stupid. Sorry.

Actually the agility makes up for the lack of avoidance on the weapon. The slow attack speed more than makes up for more str. The hit rating is also key to increasing our highest TPS stat until melee hit cap. In the end we only lose 200 health for an enormous threat upgrade, extra armor(agility), and hit rating.

[Didleydo]

I heard 1 hand dps weapons are good for pvp prot...

[vian]

paladins...having trouble with threat....did you buy TBC and WOTLK yet?

Have you ever raided with people doing instant 20k dps wile having ZERO to none in threat reduction?

[Yoshimiko]

Have you ever raided with people doing instant 20k dps wile having ZERO to none in threat reduction?

No kidding, OUr hunter pulls 38k TPS at the start of a fight, has to pop MD and FD less then 10 seconds into the fight. Our fire mage pushes 25k TPS during CD phase, and pops between 9-20k TPS through the rest of the fight.

With so many dps pushing the yummy 18k DPS mark, Many of them without threat reductions, and us tanks at a massive 7k dps, Threat isn't as easy as it was. More threat = more damage done by everyone in the raid = faster boss dies.

[Hrethel]

Paladins can need on non-tank 1 handers for the same reason that rogues can need on healing leather and warriors can need on spellpower plate: The functionality to distinguish between healing gear and dps gear and tank gear isn't in the game because of the time and manpower required to implement it, coupled with the inevitable bitching about "Why is X item needable by A spec but Y item isn't needable by B spec?" and the difficulty of drawing a line between what gear is for each spec.

I'm not so sure about this, I've been running Heroics on my Hunter alt lately, and I'm pretty sure that when spellpower weapons that he could *technically* equip (all weapons are huntard weapons, right?) he still couldn't roll Need on them.

[Lilija]

paladins...having trouble with threat....did you buy TBC and WOTLK yet?

Threat generation doesn't scale as well as dps. Have you ever done a run with no ToT/MD?

[Munk]

Between MD's, Tricks, salv's and the various threat enhancing tier bonuses anyone saying use dps 1h's for tanking is wrong, its simply not necessary.

Protibution however is a very successful pvp spec for paladins and while thats not a good reason to need on dps 1h's it is a somewhat understandable reason.

More than likely they are just being greedy and wanted it cause it looks pretty.

[Deleted]

Paladins can need on non-tank 1 handers for the same reason that rogues can need on healing leather and warriors can need on spellpower plate: The functionality to distinguish between healing gear and dps gear and tank gear isn't in the game because of the time and manpower required to implement it, coupled with the inevitable bitching about "Why is X item needable by A spec but Y item isn't needable by B spec?" and the difficulty of drawing a line between what gear is for each spec. For example, a spellpower/haste/mp5 neck, does blizzard allow resto druids to roll on it? mp5 isn't exactly a resto druid stat compared to say, spirit, but haste is. Or how about if it was spellpower/crit/mp5; neither crit nor mp5 are much use to resto druids (compared to haste/spi) but it's still technically healer gear because of the mp5. Some people would say "Healer gear, sure, but the wrong kind of healer", others would say "healer gear is healer gear, let me roll on it" and it would be difficult come to a middle ground where everyone is happy. Obviously change is always a lot more dangerous than a lack of change, and so it doesn't make sense to switch to that kind of system where gear is distinguished by its stats as well as its armour class if there is no clear majority that would be happier because of it for risk of upsetting more people. In a nutshell. I'm sure you could have figured this out yourself if you'd given your brain a little knock to get the neurons firing instead of coming straight to mmoc in tears after you lost a roll on some weapon that you'd really wanted for ages and ages and got taken off you.

assuming you are talking about LFG dungeons: rogues cannot need SP leather or cloth. warriors cannot need SP plate, nor any mail, leather or cloth. if the default need before greed interface is there, you cannot need on gear for which you can't potentially spec. apart from that, if you have a role that might have a use for it, you can roll on it.

[Yoshimiko]

Between MD's, Tricks, salv's and the various threat enhancing tier bonuses anyone saying use dps 1h's for tanking is wrong, its simply not necessary.

Protibution however is a very successful pvp spec for paladins and while thats not a good reason to need on dps 1h's it is a somewhat understandable reason.

More than likely they are just being greedy and wanted it cause it looks pretty.

ToTT Is better used tricksing the top dps. MD has a CD, Salv isn't reliable as it only decreases *one* persons threat. When you have 10 people pushing 16k dps on Marrowgar, your threat becomes a concern. What's better, .5% avoidance, 100 health or an extra 2k DPS which scales exponentially to threat? *most* tanks use dps 1handers, and have since TBC. This is nothing new. It's what makes Hammer of Righteousness hit for 12k instead of 6-7k.

When blizz stops making all tanking 1handers 1.4-1.6 speed, I'll stop using DPS 1handers.

[Percy_Night]

I lost a roll to a paladin and now im mad.

Fixed

[Rust in Peace]

For pally a fast wep (tanking wep) for a raid boss is always better. Slow dps 1h are fine for the massive snap aggro and burst from HoR on trash and pvp but when you're the MT in a 25 man raid you want that SoV to stack as fast as possible in the early seconds of the fight. No the agi on a dps weapon won't make up for the loss of stam and avoidance; sorry.

I use Last Word with Blood Draining on it and I never have threat issues. Proc is 100% uptime and scales amazingly well with paladin tanks.

[Deleted]

If a tank rolls need on a weapon and sells it, of course that is dishonest. But I suspect many tankadins prefer slow one handers. The tank stats on fast ones are rather meh, given the low value of avoidance in icc whereas the threat boost is very significant.

Read threckhd's matlab analysis of tps on maintankadin.com - going from a fast weapon to a slow weapon is about equivalent to moving up a tier in dps. It's about the biggest single upgrade you can make in terms of threat.

Saying that tankadin's don't need threat is an over-generalisation. New tanks are often outgeared by veteran dps and need it. Top tier tanks also often report threat as an issue, as currently dps seems to scale better than tps.

I have about 8 different gearsets - all but one use a slow onehander.

I think things will change with cat - with no defence stat, it will be less clear what is a tank weapon. A blue post mentioned there will be a few +stamina weapons, but that they don't expect all tanks to use them - perhaps because they have realised many tanks currently are using threat weapons.

[meddle]

Paladins can need on non-tank 1 handers for the same reason that rogues can need on healing leather and warriors can need on spellpower plate: The functionality to distinguish between healing gear and dps gear and tank gear isn't in the game because of the time and manpower required to implement it, coupled with the inevitable bitching about "Why is X item needable by A spec but Y item isn't needable by B spec?" and the difficulty of drawing a line between what gear is for each spec.

I'm not so sure of this, mainly because my DPS warrior leveling in outland instances CAN'T roll on any plate item which has an MP5 socket bonus or intellect as a stat (not that I wanted these great relics of poor itemization). STR/INT/STAM + some kind of MP5 is strictly paladin in places like Underbog, Ramps, and the Pens. So there exists at least some kind of basis for distinguishing these items, albeit pre-80.