Bye Bye DW DK tanks...

[Magnorok]

that has nothing to do with the health, if they have 27k health its because of the rest of their gear and gems. pay more attention to what your tank is wearing.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

I liked DW Tanking. I enjoy DW DPS. The mechanics of it keep it from being viable in a raid. The hit rating is the major issue. The miss chance also sucks. If you've ever DW tanked ICC before the 5-25% buffs then people would pull off you all the time and you had to rely solely on diseases and DnD.

That being said I would love to see some key abilities eb accessible to Blood just for flavor. I would love the DW talents to be at the beginning of the tree so you could have an option to DW. And i would love to have increased Magic damage/extra disease from unholy.

Love AE fights as Unholy it just gets rediculous after a while.

[Vertue]

For those people who are wondering what the red letter things below my post is: It's something I got 3 months banned for. Some guy made a nerdrage post about engineering in TBC and what he wrote is basically what I have written there, take out all the red and see if you can read it. I rewrote the post cause everyone was complaining they couldn't understand and made a reply post to tell people that is what I think he was trying to say and got the ban hammer come down on me. Just to those that were wondering. As far as I can tell, it's been there ever since and I can't find anyway to take it off. And no it's not my signature of choice lol.

[Magnorok]

well first off a huge portion of your threat come from your spells, which means just like the rest of the half spell half melee classes you go for spell hit at most, if you have a boomkin/sp buff that means you only need 11% at most cuz you should be specced for 3%, if you ally you always have 1% racial making it so at most you need 10% and to be completely honest its not a lot in my eyes. if you need the hit that bad go get 2 black icicles or 2 gutbusters. you can easily reach the hit rating you need with the right gear choices, but the first thing you have to get out of your head is gearscore. go back to the day when you went for stats not for item level rating.

[Dethkloch]

i do enjoy DW taking just be cause it is the easier spec, when running heroics and what not...pull like 2-3 groups and just AoE makes everything very fast..but when it come to single target taking its just so much easier to be blood, but keep in mind that the devs said that they wanted all tank classes to be able to tank a heroic, such as an arms warrior or a ret pally just put on a shield and a 2.5+ weapon. if this is true i can see frost DKs being able to just switch to FP and go AoE crazy in a heroic.

but yes i am sad that frost tanking is going away i enjoy being the tank that just helps with trash and being a 3rd tank when its needed but DPSing most of the time.

With Cata changes being more driven towards CC though Blood would have shined as the superior tank spec anyways (like it currently is already)

[Apostolic]

So much fail sheep in here now. Blood is only the "tank" spec now because the CD on WotN was removed. Thy just improved Blood, they DID NOT NERF FROST. Frost still takes over all less damage then most classes, even those with block.

Frost has been able to tank since Naxx, and will continue to tank till the XPac. 7/12 ICC 25 HM as DW Frost as the MT - To the nay sayer that said "Show me the guild with the Frost MT"

[rabbimojo]

This. This. This.

The second a DK tank equips a tanking weapon, they are doing it wrong.

While it's generally true that tanking weapons are pointless, all it costs you is DPS.
The threat difference is minor, since you can make up for it with extra IT spam.

Though PVP weapons of course trump the alternatives, given an encounter where threat is less important than survival, why not? Even if it isn't a dramatic improvement, it doesn't strike me as such a heinous mis-step.

So much fail sheep in here now. Blood is only the "tank" spec now because the CD on WotN was removed. Thy just improved Blood, they DID NOT NERF FROST. Frost still takes over all less damage then most classes, even those with block.
...

WotN's CD removal was a relatively minor buff. I think the perception of Blood's dominance hinges more on the self-healing which is scaling rather quickly with the ICC buff. It's certain the stronger of the two effects.

[Foibles]

Frost still takes over all less damage then most classes, even those with block.

No. You are incredibly mistaken. A Frost DK DOES take slightly (1-2%) less damage from each hit compared to a Blood DK, but block tanks, especially Paladins and geared Druids (proccing Savage Defense every other attack) will take less damage per swing.

[Confessor Kahlan]

The point I was trying to make is that the majority of players who dont know their class/spec as well, gear, itemize, spec, play, wrong. I wasnt pointing fingers at specific people and saying, Hey you arent playing the same as everyone else, so youre wrong. I was just stating that there are alot of people who arent as interested in min/maxing their characters. For those people, it IS easier to roll 2h frost/blood. Dw frost takes alot more knowledge about how expertise and tanking work. But I'm not here to argue, so ill leave.

[Organoth]

I know, I know the Cata X pac is still far and nothing is set in stone... yet. However, so far from the news that's been pouring in seems like Dual wielding DK tanks are going to be obsolete. As a DW DK tank, the only reason I rolled DK was so I can DW tank, I love the feel. We Blood becoming the only viable tanking spec, I just wanted to know if there was anyone else out there that rolled DK specifically cause they loved the DW tanking capabilities. At the moment my DK is on Standby, once I get confirmation that DW tanking is no longer viable am probably not going to be playing him anymore... -1 tank.

If you DW DK Tank in ICC they are are already fail. Every raiding DK Tank should be Blood 2H already. It's the best spec even before Cata drops, we will just get the "tanking" talents from other trees put directly into Blood.

[Triggers]

They were bad anyway

[Deleted]

Christ sake, i don't even know why DW dk tanks even existed, they're crap, every single one of them that i met was absolute crap. Due your DW, your weapon dmg is lower than a 2handed weapon (even if you add their weapon dmg), which means you do less TPS (you need more hit to be capped and you do less dmg per special attack ...), so why should they bring you over a 2hander frost dk tank which can generate more threat? You need to waste talent points to be actually viable, a 2handed frost dk doesn't, so why would they take you?

Also, if you bring up the ridiculous argument of "Then i get to wear 2 tank weapons", you suck, you know why? Because tank weapons are usually fast and you want slow weapons. Every DK that gets into my group gets a straight kick or gets vote kicked with the reason "DW DK tank = no knowledge about his class".

Go get a decent spec instead of bitching how your gimp specs, that only gets used by bad players, is going to be deleted.

[Apostolic]

No. You are incredibly mistaken. A Frost DK DOES take slightly (1-2%) less damage from each hit compared to a Blood DK, but block tanks, especially Paladins and geared Druids (proccing Savage Defense every other attack) will take less damage per swing.

Well from the parsing that I have done with both my Paladin and DK tanks (both similar geared in 264+), over all the Frost DK takes less damage. This is due to higher passive avoidance and FP2% mitigation. With block value capped, and block % virtually non existent in ICC, I preffer to tank on my DK.

And yes with DK Healing double dipping with the ICC Buff, it was a major factor. However, most of that is more then likely over healing. Although with a good Disc Priest you can single tank/heal LK 10M-HM.

[Deleted]

Well from the parsing that I have done with both my Paladin and DK tanks (both similar geared in 264+), over all the Frost DK takes less damage. This is due to higher passive avoidance and FP2% mitigation. With block value capped, and block % virtually non existent in ICC, I preffer to tank on my DK.

And yes with DK Healing double dipping with the ICC Buff, it was a major factor. However, most of that is more then likely over healing. Although with a good Disc Priest you can single tank/heal LK 10M-HM.

And would you care to show me these parses? It depends on a lot of things, like who used his cooldowns more often who had which healers.

[Pepitobenito]

Yes, goodbye pointless niche spec. Goodbye boring DPS spec (Blood). Hello dedicated tank tree and the return of two handed Frost.

Honestly, there's always someone to nitpick at positive changes.

[TGS]

Ummm I don't know where to begin with just how wrong this is. Let's see 3 out of the 4 tanking classes tank around this lovely thing called defense cap. You say in another post down further that it doesn't have to do with gear. What the freaking hell are you smoking? Noone walks into heroics with "entry" level gear and facerolls it. If they did... they weren't in entry level gear. As far as needing a tanking spec to tank... until you AND/OR your healer overgear it quite a bit... you still need the tanking spec.

For example I had an undergeared "specced" tank tanking heroics last night... but he wasn't even near the defense cap and he died on almost every boss because the bastard got crit repeatedly and the healers weren't expecting it. That will be going away in cata but they've actually said they want people to be able to tank non-raids without having to have a dedicated tanking spec.

No they didn't, wotlk heroics have not ever been hard for good players.

[Apostolic]

Christ sake, i don't even know why DW dk tanks even existed, they're crap, every single one of them that i met was absolute crap. Due your DW, your weapon dmg is lower than a 2handed weapon (even if you add their weapon dmg), which means you do less TPS (you need more hit to be capped and you do less dmg per special attack ...), so why should they bring you over a 2hander frost dk tank which can generate more threat? You need to waste talent points to be actually viable, a 2handed frost dk doesn't, so why would they take you?

Also, if you bring up the ridiculous argument of "Then i get to wear 2 tank weapons", you suck, you know why? Because tank weapons are usually fast and you want slow weapons. Every DK that gets into my group gets a straight kick or gets vote kicked with the reason "DW DK tank = no knowledge about his class".

Go get a decent spec instead of bitching how your gimp specs, that only gets used by bad players, is going to be deleted.

You sir fail at Class Knowledge. DW DK Actually put out MORE DPS and TPS then Blood, but it is pointless because with IT in 3.3.5 IT provides a decent threat boost for Blood.

Second you only need 5% hit, because of the 3% given by DW talents
Third, DW will add more Rune Strikes, which increases the threat.
Forth, DW Melee does more damage then 2 Hand Melee (tied in with 1)
Fifth, DW Specials do more damage then 2 Hand Specials (ties in with 1)

THIS IS EVEN WITH SHADOWMORNE AS BIS TANKING WEAPON

I agree that 2 tank weapons suck, that has been known since ToT was introduced.
Frost also provides more AOE Burst for picking up adds. (Such as ghouls on LK).

Are there fail DW Frost DKs out there? Yes.
But are there fail tanks and any spec/class? Hell Yes.

The majority of people have no clue, and rely on others by word of mouth. Bunch of sheep. Do the math/sims yourself.

I like I have said before and MHP also. DW FROST IT VIABLE THROUGH ICC 25 HM. Frost is better for some, blood better for others. But that goes for any fight IE Paladin > Warrior > Druid > DK. You get the drift.
There are 300 + threads available where we have shown the math on this.

Take your word of mouth BS to another forum please.

[Thundercougr]

once I get confirmation that DW tanking is no longer viable am probably not going to be playing him anymore... -1 tank.

You should quit playing him then. DW tanking has never been viable for current content, and frankly never will be. Even if you think it's "cool", what's so cool about it? You see weaker hits, you have more weapons to maintain, and you have to play as an inferior tanking spec.

---------- Post added 2010-07-13 at 08:20 PM ----------

Yo.

You haven't killed anything in ICC 25, and you've managed to kill the "easy"(Let's face it, it's all easy in 10) bosses in 10-man. That's nothing to be proud of. You and your terrible DW tanking certainly deserve that guild.

---------- Post added 2010-07-13 at 08:24 PM ----------

Ummm I don't know where to begin with just how wrong this is. Let's see 3 out of the 4 tanking classes tank around this lovely thing called defense cap. You say in another post down further that it doesn't have to do with gear. What the freaking hell are you smoking? Noone walks into heroics with "entry" level gear and facerolls it. If they did... they weren't in entry level gear. As far as needing a tanking spec to tank... until you AND/OR your healer overgear it quite a bit... you still need the tanking spec.

For example I had an undergeared "specced" tank tanking heroics last night... but he wasn't even near the defense cap and he died on almost every boss because the bastard got crit repeatedly and the healers weren't expecting it. That will be going away in cata but they've actually said they want people to be able to tank non-raids without having to have a dedicated tanking spec.

No, they didn't say they WANTED people people to tank non-raids without having a tanking spec. They said it would be ok for something like an Arms warrior to throw on a shield and tank. They said they removed Defense because it was very cumbersome and served more as a ceiling for tanks to get to instead of a "fun factor" like accumulation of other stats serve as. And that certainly makes sense, because Tanks moreso than anyone else rely on gear before they can even start an instance, so there is a rough climb there.

[Foibles]

The only time DW reliably gets more Rune Strike out is during trash because of the increase in dodges and parries. Bosses swing about once every 2.6 seconds so with Windfury and the dodge debuff you will most likely have the same amount of Rune Strike as DW versus 2h, maybe slightly more as DW.

[DarthDonut]

I just loved Acclimation.