Official 'I love the new trees' thread

[Gigawolf1]

I wish I were in the Beta so I could see how these work. For the most part, my favourite thing are the new mastery abilities you get when picking your spec; Felguard, Starsurge, Pyro, Water Elemental, etc. Though, it's kinda weird the talent tree still has Starsurge on it, even though druids supposedly get it for picking Balance. Unless it's different on Wowtal, which isn't working for me.

Oh well. I've always been solidly in the 'fun-having' category, rather than the 'games are serious' one, so I don't really have a good grasp on all the changes just yet.

[shadow946]

Im going to post something, that i posted in the hunter forum/thread.

In tier 3, 2/3 talents have ZERO raid application. But we are pretty much forced to get them. In tier 2, Imp Steady Shot is a no brainer, but then we are forced to chose between a pet centric talent(isnt this the MM tree), and a talent that is marginally useful on only 1/10 of any fight. I can name a good number of abilties that are useless in a raid setting. Rapid Killing, Careful Aim(marginal usefulness), Concussive Barrage, Dazzled Prey, Resistance is Futile, and Posthase (first portion is mariginal, second portion is even less marginally useful)

So basically every talent you take must have a raid advantage or it's a waste of a point.

I don't share that opinion

[Pozz]

I like them so far.

I fucking hate all these idiots who say we had creativity and a lot of room with the current trees - no, we really fucking didn't. Only one build was optimal, and if you weren't using that, you weren't performing at your best.

And the same will still be true, just we have a lot less points to place...

There will always be one build that is optimal.

[bw13187]

Garbage so far.

People complained about cookie cutter builds before? Well now the trees are so slim its almost IMPOSSIBLE to fuck up putting in talent points, not to mention you don't have access to the 11 pointer "fun" talents in other trees, which basically fucks over a ton of classes in PVP.

E.g. no piercing howl for arm warriors, no prep for mut rogues, no imp CS for frost mages.... it's garbage.

Of course they fix imp ghost wolf for shamans and soul link for locks. cool.

The trees don't feel slimmer. Reducing 5 pt talents to 2 and 3 pointers, and then reducing the number of talent points you get to spend overall, doesn't really change anything.

It just shoehorns people in to "this is a [x class of y spec]." Which, yeah, i guess is kind of what we had before but at least you could mix and mingle with the second tree and pick up useful abilities. And yeah, say in PVP you were EXPECTED to have those so it sort of counted as what the class "was" (i.e. frost mages with imp CS). So if the idea is, "youre a PVP arms warrior. your tree looks like THIS: (you skipped the slam talent and got the disarm talent).

Like seriously, why even have a talent tree at all if everyone's is going to be identical? you should just click the button at the top and select your tree, and then PVE or PVP and bam there ya go, you're all set up and without the illusion that you had any choice in the matter.

[Driizzt]

Seeing as how this is what a majority of the game is based around.......yes. Again, ill preface my statements with, these are very early builds, but this is what i see happening. Blizzard wanted this new system to help prevent cookie cutter specs. I can see the exact opposite happening. The raiding community is going to have pretty much a Right or wrong spec with so few points and choices to take.

[Fornaw]

Im going to post something, that i posted in the hunter forum/thread.

In tier 3, 2/3 talents have ZERO raid application. But we are pretty much forced to get them. In tier 2, Imp Steady Shot is a no brainer, but then we are forced to chose between a pet centric talent(isnt this the MM tree), and a talent that is marginally useful on only 1/10 of any fight. I can name a good number of abilties that are useless in a raid setting. Rapid Killing, Careful Aim(marginal usefulness), Concussive Barrage, Dazzled Prey, Resistance is Futile, and Posthase (first portion is mariginal, second portion is even less marginally useful)

I just flipped through the MM tree, and this is a great example of what I mean. You're going to wind up spending points and then forgetting what you spent them on since it doesn't actually matter when you play.

[Direpanda]

Right now on live, on my Mage, I have spent 36 "boring fluff" talent points. Stuff that's just flat increased damage/hit/crit/haste/spirit/intellect and doesn't at all change the way I play or how my enemies fight.

On my baretank, the number is smaller but still high—26.

My Holydin, we're back up to 33.

Of course people will have different criteria for "boring". And some of the changed talents are still going to be increased damage to a handful of abilities. But I will not miss losing all these talents and having their power baked into the class.

That said, I'm hoping the current trees do get fleshed out a little more. I will not whine if one or two talent points must be spent for marginal usefulness; but some trees seem very clearly designed for either PVE or PVP at this point.

[Soulblaze]

So far I think it's definitely a huge step in the right direction. More room for fun, less boring stuff, less bloated trees.
With some things I'm not yet completely satisfied, and I know a few Prot Pallies who will rage ("WTF why is Divine Sacrifice a mandatory talent now?!11" ), but in the end, we don't know yet what will hit us, so to speak. And there's still enough time to tweak stuff, I guess.

All in all, I certainly liked what I saw so far.

[Dark Side]

/signed
They are fine, they nialed the key points and thats whats important to me

[shadow946]

Seeing as how this is what a majority of the game is based around.......yes.

See this is how hardcore raiders think: They look at a talent and go 'how will this improve my epeen dps'

[sessava]

I have no issues with them. There were no actual choices in the old builds if you were maximizing your efficiency, this just simplifies that. Plus, you would be surprised the number of new players/awful players that do not understand how to properly spec, and thus you see them spreading out and putting points into multiple trees evenly, or some odd mix up of the three. This forces players down one specifically defined path, and teaches the player (the generally wise idea) to stick with that path until you at least reach the end of the tree. (barring respecs/dual-specs)

People are just complaining because they're under the illusion that they're losing something. Blizzard will balance the trees and you will not lose anything in the process. They just trimmed all the 'invisible' talents, that had bonuses that you never saw. Everything else is either merged into the mastery or still remains.

andhonestlyifanyonedoesanythingtotrytogetmynewpetwarlock'slevel10felguard*removediwillmake thempay

[Shroud]

See this is how hardcore raiders think: They look at a talent and go 'how will this improve my epeen dps'

Not gonna lie but yeah im like that i only cared about making my dps better but not for epeen more like to fully help my guildmates and I to see Lore that is associated with the Fights :L mhmmhmm Lore.

[Driizzt]

See this is how hardcore raiders think: They look at a talent and go 'how will this improve my epeen dps'

Thats my job, I play a hunter. I have two major jobs. Kill $hit fast, and stay alive. I can't tank or heal. When a good portion of my tree, MM (15-20%) doesn't help with either of those, well, call me concerend.

[Sy]

/signed
They are fine, they nialed the key points and thats whats important to me

i wish i could see it that way. i just miss the choices i had in the first beta build =(
now you just spend everything you got into nearly all talents you got. no place for mistakes. no place (meaningful) choices. no place for fun (for me at least).

and getting "1% more hit/heal/whatever" every two level doesn't feel exactly...uhm...exiting either. they promised to change that drastically and i really hope they will, as until now they even made it worse (same 1% talents, no bonuses per point/level, but only one point every ~two level).

[Kampret]

As promised, a lot of the uneccessary fat cut out (so far)

OT : U cant say this is the official thread because mmochamp is not official O.O

[Deleted]

nerf retri dmg.... like 100% arp, lots of armor, heals and bubble just make it crazy...

OT; i'm very excited to see how pulverize (in the feral tree) works

[finnalblow]

the small tree's are gay i want more choices

[JustintimeSS]

Talent trees were too cookie cutter, now I can get what I think is fun.

I cant agree with you at all. Look at the new resto shaman tree. I mindlessly put the 31 points into every available pve talent in resto and then have an exact number of points to spend in the exact number of talents that actually effect resto in the enhancement tree. That, by all terms, is cookie cutter to the heart since there are absolutely no other useful options available.

[fizikz]

seems to me they're generally doing the following things...

removing all the boring +damage +healing -threat +threat w/e talents, and replacing them with

A) utility talents
B) fun +damage/healing/whatever talents (procs, crits, w/e...cooler than +5% crit or +5% dodge)

I wouldn't worry so much about the LAYOUT as it seems they will be messing around with that (as well as other things) later... overall, I'm happy with the talents they've kept, and not missing anyone in particular they've deleted...

[Sy]

I have no issues with them. There were no actual choices in the old builds if you were maximizing your efficiency, this just simplifies that. Plus, you would be surprised the number of new players/awful players that do not understand how to properly spec, and thus you see them spreading out and putting points into multiple trees evenly, or some odd mix up of the three. This forces players down one specifically defined path, and teaches the player (the generally wise idea) to stick with that path until you at least reach the end of the tree. (barring respecs/dual-specs)

People are just complaining because they're under the illusion that they're losing something. Blizzard will balance the trees and you will not lose anything in the process. They just trimmed all the 'invisible' talents, that had bonuses that you never saw. Everything else is either merged into the mastery or still remains.

andhonestlyifanyonedoesanythingtotrytogetmynewpetwarlock'slevel10felguard*removediwillmake thempay

regarding new players: i agree, new/bad players shouldn't have so many problems to find the "right" specc. but blizzard just decided to not solve this problem through helping them to understand how the system works - but instead just removes any choice, so they will simply have no room to make mistakes anyway. does that sound like a good, fun and exiting change in gameplay? i think not.

and tbh, if people don't even understand how to specc (not talking about "perfect" but about at least working speccs), they will have many bigger problems when they reach the level where they will want to try raiding/pvp.
simplifing everything so new players don't even have to understand what they are playing might actually NOT help them in the long run. but guess what? that's not what blizzard wants to accomplish. what they want is, in fact, that new players just don't quit wow in the early levels.