An important post by GC regarding the talent trees.

[Snes]

Just thought I would point this out: "The damage of every class will be adjusted according to the new talent trees." - Ghostcrawler
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25969...the-fury-tree/

To be honest, the outrage against these talent trees is just pathetic. You've given it less than an hour and are already crying over it. Things will be tweaked. I saw a post telling us to stop saying "it's just beta things will change", well I'm not going to stop, because there is no sense in just letting people prematurely cry over something they haven't even given a chance.

If you're an advocate for change, and you are immediately criticizing the early versions of these new talent trees, you're a hypocrite.

[Ozzy Osbourne]

It trees are quite small, although I like that they've removed the useless talents

[Zaz]

People keep bitching saying that "theres not enough variety" thats such shit, especially since people always just armory or w/e to find a good spec. All that variety people are whining about is the bullshit that no one liked in the first place. The whole idea of the trees is so that when you are a balance druid or a demonology lock you feel more like that, which is in my opinion, just an all around cooler idea.
Good job blizz on the new trees, and with all the new changes I think I'm gunna be saying that more often

[Sy]

Just thought I would point this out: "The damage of every class will be adjusted according to the new talent trees." - Ghostcrawler
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25969...the-fury-tree/

To be honest, the outrage against these talent trees is just pathetic. You've given it less than an hour and are already crying over it. Things will be tweaked. I saw a post telling us to stop saying "it's just beta things will change", well I'm not going to stop, because there is no sense in just letting people prematurely cry over something they haven't even given a chance.

If you're an advocate for change, and you are immediately criticizing the early versions of these new talent trees, you're a hypocrite.

maybe you should read a bit more then.
i, for example, am NOT crying over the trees because i don't like how single talents work out, how numbers are atm or something like that.
but i am, because the direction blizzard is going with (most of) these trees - no choices, boring as hell - and even with all the changes that are still going to come, i doubt blizzard will turn away from that direction.

All that variety people are whining about is the bullshit that no one liked in the first place.

uhm, so, i'm "no one"?
srsly, i'm glad for you if you like the trees and the changes. but i don't. and you shouldn't try to say what other people have to like or dislike.

[frester]

maybe you should read a bit more then.
i, for example, am [...] crying over the trees because [...] the direction blizzard is going with (most of) these trees - no choices, boring as hell [...]

seriously?? i'm sure you were more excited about getting 1%dmg with swords or whatever than one of current talents... i just don't get it how those new talents are more boring that the old one, i think every old talent that made difference or something fun made it through, and about choices there are some in almost every tree, where you are left with 1 or 2 points till you can advance to next tier and there is no dmg increasing talents to pick, so you have choice to get some utility, something fun for that imo.

please explain how it's more boring and how is there no choice.

[Auz]

maybe you should read a bit more then.
i, for example, am NOT crying over the trees because i don't like how single talents work out, how numbers are atm or something like that.
but i am, because the direction blizzard is going with (most of) these trees - no choices, boring as hell - and even with all the changes that are still going to come, i doubt blizzard will turn away from that direction.


uhm, so, i'm "no one"?
srsly, i'm glad for you if you like the trees and the changes. but i don't. and you shouldn't try to say what other people have to like or dislike.

Can i just say, i've been reading this forum on and off for most of the day, but i can't help but notice your perpetual bitching and whining over the entire situation. I think you may infact be the most negative person on this forum, grow up, life's tough. Bitching and whining over a game in EARLY BETA does not bring about anything constructive.

Let's take a look now at the angle you are coming from. You say that there are no choices and the talents are boring as hell. But tell me this, can you honestly say that you aren't pigeonholed into a maximum DPS spec when raiding, or an optimum PvP spec when doing arena in the current version of the game? In essence what you are saying is that the useless talents that barely any person picked up are the sole reason why you loved the previous trees so much? Do you honestly like having to look up EJ or this website in order to find out the best specs, because i and many others certainly do not.

If you would care to, please show me an example of an exciting talent from the current version of the game, from a class you play at 80, that has not made it into these talent trees. If there is such a talent that has been removed, why don't you actually take a positive step and propose on the blizzard forums (god forbid) that it be returned in some fashion.

[Sy]

seriously?? i'm sure you were more excited about getting 1%dmg with swords or whatever than one of current talents... i just don't get it how those new talents are more boring that the old one, i think every old talent that made difference or something fun made it through, and about choices there are some in almost every tree, where you are left with 1 or 2 points till you can advance to next tier and there is no dmg increasing talents to pick, so you have choice to get some utility, something fun for that imo.

please explain how it's more boring and how is there no choice.

first, i'm not comparing them to our current trees, but to the first ones we saw in beta.

second, there are still many talents like that. not as many as there are in the current ones, but still to much imo. that's acutally one of the things i dislike about the new trees, as blizzard stated they would be removed.

third, in the trees i looked at (blood dk, mm (pvp) hunter, discipline priest, elemental shaman) i had to spend nearly all of my points in either mandatory talents, or in talents that i didn't even want to take, but just had to spend the points anywhere to get to the next teir.
i had about 3 points left to "chose" talents. none of those which were aviable where in any form "meaningful" like blizzard said they would.

[AverageJoe]

I think many people's main problem is that they feel like they don't have the freedom to mess around and come up with some crazy but effective build for soloing / pvp or whatnot. What we have to realise is that Blizz are trying to get every talent tree to feel "complete". What I mean by that is that every talent tree should have the tools it needs to do its job efficiently, whithout having to resort to bloaty, mindless talents (+x% damage).

Another bonus of this design is that it gives way more weight to every choice you make regarding talents, whilst the amount of available choices is being reduced, especially when it comes to sub-speccing. An example of that would be the warrior talent trees. There are several options available once you've got the "needed" talents, but not enough talents to get them all. However, each of these options places emphasis on a different aspect of your game, whilst (at first glance) not having a clear-cut "Bad talent - great talent" distinction. I don't mean to say there won't be a "best" build, that will always be the case, but there will be more leeway, or so it seems.

[Sy]

Can i just say, i've been reading this forum on and off for most of the day, but i can't help but notice your perpetual bitching and whining over the entire situation. I think you may infact be the most negative person on this forum, grow up, life's tough. Bitching and whining over a game in EARLY BETA does not bring about anything constructive.

you're right, it doesn't bring anything constructive. but that's mostly because i have to explain in every single post what i'm actually talking about. i don't want to change the world. but i'd like to have some nice discussions about the pro and contra of the new trees, rather than explaining over and over again what i'm trying to say.
i'm sorry if i downed your mood with that, wasn't my intention :P

Let's take a look now at the angle you are coming from. You say that there are no choices and the talents are boring as hell. But tell me this, can you honestly say that you aren't pigeonholed into a maximum DPS spec when raiding, or an optimum PvP spec when doing arena in the current version of the game? In essence what you are saying is that the useless talents that barely any person picked up are the sole reason why you loved the previous trees so much? Do you honestly like having to look up EJ or this website in order to find out the best specs, because i and many others certainly do not.

if you would have read most of my posts (which you claim to have seen most of them) carefully, you should have known by now that i'm mostly talking about non-pve-dps-speccs. blood dk (which is tank in cata) and mm pvp hunter are the most important to me. yes, to me. yes, i do realize it's only my opinion.
in fact i NEVER EVER looked up a specc for one of these two chars ANYWHERE on the internet. and i would consider myself a rather decent player (though certainly far from of the best), so it's not just because i have all bad speccs. but i like(d) to think about it for myself and to discuss them with people in game. people who also know what they are talking about, people i like playing (and testing speccs) with.

If you would care to, please show me an example of an exciting talent from the current version of the game, from a class you play at 80, that has not made it into these talent trees. If there is such a talent that has been removed, why don't you actually take a positive step and propose on the blizzard forums (god forbid) that it be returned in some fashion.

again, i have to explain... i'm mostly NOT talking about the trees we have currently in game. i'm talking about both the trees of the first beta build and the ideas/plans blizzard published. those were / should have been more about fun and playstyle changing talents and meaningful (!) choices. although i'll admit that at least most of the boring talents are gone, there are still far to many of them, considering we have so much less points to spend imo. and there are next to no meaningful choices in most of the talent trees i've looked at so far.

and again *sigh* i KNOW the trees are far from final, i know they will change, at least a bit.
and i know there's still hope that the very direction blizzard is going with the newly released will change drastically. but i just don't think they will.
again, it's not that the trees and talents aren't final what bothers me. it's the direction the changes are going.


i hope that explains quite a bit, and even i know many people like the new tree design, it may just kill one of the parts i looked forward to the most in cata: having fun trees, making meaningful choices.


edit:
wall of text hits small thread critically.
small thread dies.

corpse run, anyone?