Might of the Frozen Waste = 2h Frost is back?!?

[Granpa]

Is it safe to assume with the upcoming "Might of the Frozen Waste" talent that 2h frost is making a comeback in Cataclysm? If so I'm happy as a DK can be. I'm sick of playing Unholy.

By the way, this is what I'm looking at as a potential 2h Frost build for Cata:

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=xmOnO0oGK.9mn.deathknight

[Deleted]

Wow, only took you about a year to realize that.

They said so back in BlizzCon '09.

[Granpa]

I'm always late to the party

[Cactrot]

my DK have always been 2h frost


http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ahn'Qiraj&cn=Abigos

Is your DPS war prot specced too?

Seriously, you do realize that 2h frost is currently (and for awhile now) horribad, right?

Edit: Oh god, another futurepost, aaahhhhhhhhhh

[Wrien]

Is your DPS war prot specced too?

Seriously, you do realize that 2h frost is currently (and for awhile now) horribad, right?

Edit: Oh god, another futurepost, aaahhhhhhhhhh

why do you care? it's by far the funnest DK spec, i never use my other spec blood becuse i choosed DK for high crits.. and 2h frost has clearly the highest ones. it's not that bad with 8,1k dps on Saurfang...

2h Frost is the only spec i crit over 20k with in Voa and a lot more in ICC with the buff... it's a matter of playstyle

and seriously,, do you realize that not everyone play the spec with the highest dps...... who cares about having high dps if you don't enjoy the playstyle...

[Cactrot]

why do you care? it's by far the funnest DK spec, i never use my other spec blood becuse i choosed DK for high crits.. and 2h frost has clearly the highest ones. it's not that bad with 8,1k dps on Saurfang...

2h Frost is the only spec i crit over 20k with in Voa and a lot more in ICC with the buff... it's a matter of playstyle

and seriously,, do you realize that not everyone play the spec with the highest dps...... who cares about having high dps if you don't enjoy the playstyle...

Don't really care. I was just asking if you realized it was horribad. Some people don't. I cared enough to try to point you in the right direction. If I were on your server I might care since apparently you can't get past the first wing in ICC. If I ever had to raid with you, then it might matter to me, even if I'm on an alt.

Oh, and the other 9/24 people raiding with you might care about having highest DPS. The fact that you're gimping them for your own sake is selfish, unless of course you're specifically joining 4/12 pugs, in which case have at it.

[Pickwickman]

Don't really care. I was just asking if you realized it was horribad. Some people don't. I cared enough to try to point you in the right direction. If I were on your server I might care since apparently you can't get past the first wing in ICC. If I ever had to raid with you, then it might matter to me, even if I'm on an alt.

Oh, and the other 9/24 people raiding with you might care about having highest DPS. The fact that you're gimping them for your own sake is selfish, unless of course you're specifically joining 4/12 pugs, in which case have at it.

With Shadowmourne and BiS its not even a 1k dps difference. Sure, I agree it is a bit too much dps lost, but only 1k difference justifies a different playstyle if you like it imo.

8.1kdps is enough till LK25. And if he plays his 2hfrost right, he might outdps most puggers. I know I sure beat out a lot of people with better gear who had their gems and enchants and spec right, but didn't know how to play.

Don't you agree?

OT: Its awesome that they are trying to make 2h frost available again. I would love it if they did the same with unholy. As dual-wield UH in Ulduar times was awesome.

[Cactrot]

With Shadowmourne and BiS its not even a 1k dps difference. Sure, I agree it is a bit too much dps lost, but only 1k difference justifies a different playstyle if you like it imo.

Don't you agree?

If you're playing in a shadowmourne quality guild, no I sure as hell don't agree. To be in a decent guild and to be chosen for a legendary and then say "Thanks for the loot, but I'm gonna use this here shadowmourne that you gave me to increase my DPS in a spec that lowers my DPS" is beyond selfish. Also, I believe the difference is LESS significant at BiS shadowmourne levels than it is at the lower levels. I'm not 100% on that though since I don't really waste time simming out obviously subpar specs.

You want to play some terrible playstyle, go for it. I don't mind. To inflict it on 24/9 other people where it actually can hold them back from what they want? That's rude and self centered, and I don't approve. Go do all the heroics you want. VoA it up. Those won't be affected by your playstyle choice. To do real raids like that is screwing over 9/24 people for personal interest though.


The point is though, this thread was obviously about 2hfrost coming back as a real spec, not some playstyle gimmick. Of course you could always 2hand frost if you were willing to be sub par. Just like you could DPS as a prot war, if you're willing to do sub par DPS. He came in saying he was doing something pretty dumb, so I wanted to make sure he knew it was not a proper DPS spec. Do you have a problem with me making sure he was informed?

Finally, your selfish little playstyle I'm-all-that-matters attitude pretty much summarizes why he is unable to make it into ICC even as far as my alt goes in a pug.

Edit: To address your edit. Yes, playing a subpar spec well you can still down LK25. However I've known very few (read: zero) people who willfully spec a horrible spec for the sake of playstyle who actually play their class well, or even decently for that matter. Maybe someone using a gimmick offspec when they know the run can handle it, but only as an offspec not serious thing.

Also, using a subpar spec when you're close to getting something down, even if it's "only" 1k dps can make or break getting an encounter down. For any encounter you barely got down, for everyone who's half assing it that means someone else was there performing better than they needed to be just so they could carry you. That's selfish. For every encounter that isn't downed because the DPS was just a bit low, that's people missing out on loot and wasting a lockout because you wanted to do your little gimmick. That's selfish too.

Once again: enjoy your crappy playstyle, just please don't inflict it on others when it will make a difference (ICC,maybe RS, and some alt centric/PUG ToCs)

[Apostolic]

my DK have always been 2h frost


http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ahn'Qiraj&cn=Abigos

---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 05:16 PM ----------



why do you care? it's by far the funnest DK spec, i never use my other spec blood becuse i choosed DK for high crits.. and 2h frost has clearly the highest ones. it's not that bad with 8,1k dps on Saurfang...

2h Frost is the only spec i crit over 20k with in Voa and a lot more in ICC with the buff... it's a matter of playstyle

and seriously,, do you realize that not everyone play the spec with the highest dps...... who cares about having high dps if you don't enjoy the playstyle...

2hnd frost died when IT Spam was nerfed in Ulduar, and when FS was nerfed after Naxx (from 100% weapon dmg)

Plus your 8k DPS -25% = 6K DPS = Ulduar Dps Range = Go Dual Wield

[Wrien]

my DK have always been 2h frost


http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ahn'Qiraj&cn=Abigos

---------- Post added 2010-07-14 at 05:16 PM ----------

Is your DPS war prot specced too?

Seriously, you do realize that 2h frost is currently (and for awhile now) horribad, right?

Edit: Oh god, another futurepost, aaahhhhhhhhhh

why do you care? it's by far the funnest DK spec, i never use my other spec blood becuse i choosed DK for high crits.. and 2h frost has clearly the highest ones. it's not that bad with 8,1k dps on Saurfang...

2h Frost is the only spec i crit over 20k with in Voa and a lot more in ICC with the buff... it's a matter of playstyle

and seriously,, do you realize that not everyone play the spec with the highest dps...... who cares about having high dps if you don't enjoy the playstyle...

[Pickwickman]

Wall of Text <3

I agree with you, and that is that.

But this person I presume, is not a highend raider, neither is he in a raiding guild as far as I know. I think those people may do experiment with stuff they like, as it's really the raidleaders fault if he chooses him for his PuG.

I do make lots of PuGs as you can see, I got a tad too many alts, I like to have all my chars in decent gear (icc10/25, some icc10hc) and to do that I have been the raidleader many a time. And I would not take him with my regular 7/12-25n and 8/12hc10 pugruns.

But, if he wants to play like that, and groups take him, then yeah in my opinion he may spec whatever he likes to add some spice to his talentbuild. (as long as it ain't 71/0/0)

[Cactrot]

I agree with you, and that is that.

But this person I presume, is not a highend raider, neither is he in a raiding guild as far as I know. I think those people may do experiment with stuff they like, as it's really the raidleaders fault if he chooses him for his PuG.

I do make lots of PuGs as you can see, I got a tad too many alts, I like to have all my chars in decent gear (icc10/25, some icc10hc) and to do that I have been the raidleader many a time. And I would not take him with my regular 7/12-25n and 8/12hc10 pugruns.

But, if he wants to play like that, and groups take him, then yeah in my opinion he may spec whatever he likes to add some spice to his talentbuild. (as long as it ain't 71/0/0)

Hmm, well, fair enough. Mark this day down in your calenders people. 2 people on mmo champ just agreed with each other. My only further comment is that it sucks for anyone in a pug with a leader who does choose him. It kind of sucks that for any given pug, if you care at all about succeeding you have to double check the leader. Such is the life of a pugger though.

[Rukh]

...people spec for highest crits?


get out of my class.

[Pickwickman]

Yup, but a successful PuG will have a leader who checks their gear and raidachievements. If your leader doesn't do that, or doesn't say that he is going to armory you.. You are in trouble.

You need to be careful with PuGs, so you can weed the bads out of the better ones, as there are shittons more people who raid now, so you have a higher amount of terrible skilled/knowledged people.

Seriously, I have had pugs do more heroic ICC than guilds, just 'cause they were good players wanting to do the instance.

But yeah, loves to you.

...people spec for highest crits?


get out of my class.

Unfortunatly yes, and I have seen plenty of DK's with the aforementioned 71/0/0 builds. Seriously, our class attracts bads like shit attracts flies.

[LeBoucher]

Might of the Frozen Wastes is not even a DPS talent in my opinion. I guess having tons of runic power to FS the crap out of everything is good. But I believe that going 1H'd is a better idea considering the talents already in the tree that increase 1H'd damage.

2H'd frost DPS will never see the light of day, or better yet, it will never reach freezing temperatures.

[Pickwickman]

Might of the Frozen Wastes is not even a DPS talent in my opinion. I guess having tons of runic power to FS the crap out of everything is good. But I believe that going 1H'd is a better idea considering the talents already in the tree that increase 1H'd damage.

2H'd frost DPS will never see the light of day, or better yet, it will never reach freezing temperatures.

You mean nerves of cold steel only, right? And yes MotFW will make 2handed viable. More RP means more FS (Which, if you forgot got buffed TONS) means more procs of Runic Empowerment, means more runes refreshed, means more GCD's filled.

Do not forget, Blizzard is intending to make it so that you are not GCD capped anymore, and having runes proc makes us fit in more Obliterates so 2handed will near, and maybe even surpass, dual wield.

Something like this: http://www.wowtal.com/#k=xmQYkKG5K.9mn.deathknight (points in bcb can go to virulence)

[Taen]

Wow, only took you about a year to realize that.

They said so back in BlizzCon '09.

No, actually. They didn't. As I recall, they announced 2H Frost would be returning when they revealed Blood to be to dedicated tanking tree, which wasn't all that long ago.

[Niero123]

It looks pretty weak against DW imo

[Marilina]

it just gives you the ability to pick whatever weapon you wish and not only 1hander such as now

[Rukh]

People need to expand their ability to imagine. If blizzard wants 2h frost to work, they'll tweak things until it works. Don't limit yourself to only looking at this one specific talent, this one talent is a sign of direction, and that direction is viable 2h frost. Anticipate other tweaks if the one talent isn't enough.