Survival tree bloated?

[Deleted]

Been looking through the talent trees, many can go 31/10 with their talent points and get everything needed for raiding (every talent that gives damage in that talent tree can be achieved with 31 talent points.) while survival hunters have to use 49(!) talent points to get all in their survival tree, how is this fair? You will either lose out of a ton of good talents because it is so bloated. No other class I've been looking at has this problem so wth?

[Ravendill]

It's still beta chill. This is why there's a beta

[Deleted]

Exacly, which is why I'm bringing up the issue so it doesn't get overlooked. Sure this isn't the official forum but it is a forum many beta testers read and they might know upcomming changes.

Don't give me such a macroed response please. It's bordering on trolling.

[Shmazard]

Survival tree blows?

fixed.

[Deleted]

Survival tree blows?

fixed.

Which is the problem. Not fixed, point made obvious for retards who can't read and understand, but considering how many there are of those I guess I should be thanking you ;P

[Shmazard]

yeah i have been playing a hunter since i started this game in 2005, but think i will be done come cata, hello enhance shaman! hello mage!

[Deleted]

But look at it this way, SV has always been very bloated... In a normal build nowadays, you only usually see an SV hunter go into MM to get Aimed Shot (which is now impossible). Depending on how well the focus return from the crit thing is, you may not even really need to go into MM past the first tier or two just to grab the steady shot buff imo.

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=R-IIzm5D.9mn.hunter - Something like this for now.

If anything, I do agree that SV is a little bloated, and it has too many 3 point talents for the PvE abilities and most of the 2 point talents are PvP related (maybe Blizz wants to make SV the PvP spec again), but it's beta, and a lot will change from now till launch.

Problem is you give up 3% damage (noxion stings) 10% damage from explosive trap (which can now be used with trap laucher, 2sec cd on black arrow and 4% agility. In addition to the focus reduction from MM for the pet.

[Spl4sh3r]

I want to point out that according to Blizzard your spec is broken if you try taking all points in the same tree. And there is no real point wasting them in same tree either seeing how for Survival there are so many PvP talents (if you are PvE'er)

[writhe666]

But look at it this way, SV has always been very bloated... In a normal build nowadays, you only usually see an SV hunter go into MM to get Aimed Shot (which is now impossible). Depending on how well the focus return from the crit thing is, you may not even really need to go into MM past the first tier or two just to grab the steady shot buff imo.

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=R-IIzm5D.9mn.hunter - Something like this for now.

If anything, I do agree that SV is a little bloated, and it has too many 3 point talents for the PvE abilities and most of the 2 point talents are PvP related (maybe Blizz wants to make SV the PvP spec again), but it's beta, and a lot will change from now till launch.

[Steakdinner]

Okay, first off I want to make sure people understand I am not in the beta so I can't test any numbers or anything write off the bat so if you want to disregard this as a result then by all means do so.

I took a look through the talent setup for possible survival builds and this is what I came up with...
wowtal.com/#k=R-IwY2mkc.9mn.hunter (wouldn't let me link since this is my first post on mmo-champ, just copy and paste. don't forget the www)

The big difference between my build and the one above me in this post is that of #1 Being a survival hunter you are primarily a utility based class spec so having a replenish for the raid is almost a must (if it is not needed due to plenty of replenish in the raid the by all means reallocate if you think somewhere else might be better dps than 2% agility increase). It is a 50% chance with 1 point and lasts 15 seconds so I would imagine the uptime would be pretty solid without the need for 2 points.

I only put one point in the "Thrill of the Hunt" talent instead of 3 vs the guy above me because of the following reasons:

1. Since we are now focus based I would imagine it would work more like rogues in that we want to be "energy starved" to utilize our focus/dmg to its maximum potential.

2. As I stated previously if no replenishment is needed an extra point would be very helpful here if you are having a huge issue between being focus starved and having a GCD up for waaaaaaay too long.

I only put 1 point in expose weakness because....there shouldn't be any reason I would think that 5 shots can't be made within the 20 second uptime of expose weakness to keep the proc going unless there is something not shown on the talent tree such as strength of the expose weakness effect.

Can anyone confirm if the strength of expose weakness is any different with 1 talent point vs 2 or 3?

Suggestions, thoughts, and criticism are appreciated on this talent build as I said I am not in beta and would very much like some additional thought process/information on these specific talents that may not show other effects.

[Kimbald]

4 or 5 steady shots IN A ROW.
unless I am misreading this, you can't fire anything but white shots in between counting up.
Or am I wrong and it simply counts till 5 whatever you do in between?

If it's really in a row, than this means missing out on ES too much in my book.
3 is even too much, both MM and BM only need 2 for their proc.

Don't get the logic of these 3 steadies anyhow:
they give us talents to enhance our first dot serpent sting, and than hand us the Black Arrow again as 31 pointer, both dots and thus allowing for movement as SV always has been mobile.
But then you need 5-4-3 steadies?
It's beyond m how this makes sense.

ps. where is our promised trap utility?

[Sativex]

4 or 5 steady shots IN A ROW.
unless I am misreading this, you can't fire anything but white shots in between counting up.
Or am I wrong and it simply counts till 5 whatever you do in between?

If it's really in a row, than this means missing out on ES too much in my book.
3 is even too much, both MM and BM only need 2 for their proc.

Don't get the logic of these 3 steadies anyhow:
they give us talents to enhance our first dot serpent sting, and than hand us the Black Arrow again as 31 pointer, both dots and thus allowing for movement as SV always has been mobile.
But then you need 5-4-3 steadies?
It's beyond m how this makes sense.

ps. where is our promised trap utility?

It's only 5/4/3 steadies in a row to put the buff up, after that any single steady shot will refresh the buff, it's not really that bad.

[Kimbald]

It's only 5/4/3 steadies in a row to put the buff up, after that any single steady shot will refresh the buff, it's not really that bad.

Cool, are you testing that on beta?
Because I see no source for this anywhere. Didn't think anyone could use it yet.
Might be overlooking something in the tooltip, but refreshing with a single steady I had no knowledge of.

it's a lot better than indeed, still 3 in pvp will be hard to pull of, given they either move close or LoS you during that time.
Of course camo could into play here for the first one casted 'freely'.