Enhancement spec [cata]

[Vargarii]

Arrakus, it isn't talking about having to move 10 seconds at a time every time you have to move, it's total time. If it was for every set of movement, the enchant wouldn't even be in the running.

---------- Post added 2010-07-15 at 11:48 PM ----------

Also, you'll find that a lot of us run with the enchant on our boots, at least most of the ones that are facing down the heroic content.

---------- Post added 2010-07-15 at 11:57 PM ----------

This is the post you were talking about:

http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t67034-e...2/#post1325309

and this is quoted from it:

"Run speed provides a speed increase of 8%. Broken down:
•If you are running for 1 second, you will get to your destination 0.080 seconds faster.
•If you are running for 1 minute, you will get to your destination 4.8 seconds faster.
•If you are running for 5 minutes, you will get to your destination 24 seconds faster.
•If you are running for 10 minutes, you will get to your destination 48 seconds faster.


Using a BiS set up (roughly 7400 DPS), Cat’s Swiftness over Icewalker nets a 20DPS decrease. Broken down:
•Over a minute encounter, this is 1200 total dmg
•Over a 5 minute encounter this is 6000 total dmg
•Over a 10 minute encounter this is 12000 total dmg"



This is comparing a gearset where you do less damage, and is only talking about the 8% from boots.

It goes into more detail in the post, but as our current gearset is nearly double the dps output of the old gear, both icewalker and run speed values are changed, but the value of runspeed is greatly increased in our current set.


/edit note that the second part is not talking about 10 minutes of run time, as that would amount to 355200 dmg. (I believe it is using 20 seconds which in current bis is closer to 20k extra dmg rather than 12k)

[Barky]

As stated before, we'll be using Searing totem to beef up our Lava Lash hits. Fire nova can only be used with Flametongue, Magma and Fire elemental totems(as seen here: http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=1535), so putting that point into improved fire nova is worthless to us, it's best to go into 3/3 shields, as also stated before... http://www.wowtal.com/#k=Zwwk9IY4.9mn.shaman would be our spec.

didnt see that nova change, thanks for the heads up, in which case yeah, swapping that one point into the shields looks like the best tree.

[breric]

One of the reasons I haven't pushed getting Elemental Precision is that I have no idea if we'll even need it. We aren't even sure what the "gear outlook" will be for the T11 content... how much hit will be available... how much hit do we need to cap? Is hit as important at the spell cap given the loss of Elemental Fury?

I'm going to quote myself here:

EDIT: Another thing that just came to my mind is the following: Will we need need the +Hit talent from the Elemental tree? To soft-hit-cap a Draenei you'll need 1998 Hit Rating with level 85. Horde even needs 2152. The thing is... We don't know what those numbers mean. It sure seems much to us now because we don't know how much hit rating will be on the new gear. Just a thought.

To the people who ask: I got the numbers from Whitetooth's post (google Combat Ratings Cataclysm; can't post links yet) on EJ. You'll need 153.645 rating for 1% spell hit. 13% Hit is needed for Alliance Soft Spell Hit Cap; 13*153,645=1997,385; Horde is 14% - 14*153,645=2151,03.

EDIT: Duh. What I just noticed is the following. Misery and Improved Faerie Fire is gone. Means we would need the full 16% hit - 17% for Horde respectively (without pts in Elemental Precision!). This translates to the following: 16*153,645=2458,32 hit rating and 17*153,645=2611,965 hit rating.
No more soft hit capping, it seems. Also, feel free to correct me or point out any flaws.

[Deleted]

To the people who ask: I got the numbers from Whitetooth's post (google Combat Ratings Cataclysm; can't post links yet) on EJ. You'll need 153.645 rating for 1% spell hit. 13% Hit is needed for Alliance Soft Spell Hit Cap; 13*153,645=1997,385; Horde is 14% - 14*153,645=2151,03.

EDIT: Duh. What I just noticed is the following. Misery and Improved Faerie Fire is gone. Means we would need the full 16% hit - 17% for Horde respectively (without pts in Elemental Precision!). This translates to the following: 16*153,645=2458,32 hit rating and 17*153,645=2611,965 hit rating.
No more soft hit capping, it seems. Also, feel free to correct me or point out any flaws.

I think the URL you were looking to post is http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-c...2/#post1639830

You are making an assumption that the hit cap for spells will remain at 17% and that other caps remain the same. For example hit cap for specials used to be 9% this was tested and proved to have been reduced during WotLK beta, however this was never announced by Blizzard. We are too early yet to test the numbers properly although early tests are being done.

So personally I'd hold off making any assumptions about how we would gear or talent until we know better, through in beta testing by theorycrafters, of what changes if any have been made to the various caps. It is my guess that with misery/imp faerie fire being removed they will do some alterations to the cap numbers.

They did previously state they want hit caps etc to be much much clearer in game to warn the uninitiated players who don't theorycraft or read forums that they aren't capped.

[breric]

You are making an assumption that the hit cap for spells will remain at 17% and that other caps remain the same. For example hit cap for specials used to be 9% this was tested and proved to have been reduced during WotLK beta, however this was never announced by Blizzard. We are too early yet to test the numbers properly although early tests are being done.

So personally I'd hold off making any assumptions about how we would gear or talent until we know better, through in beta testing by theorycrafters, of what changes if any have been made to the various caps. It is my guess that with misery/imp faerie fire being removed they will do some alterations to the cap numbers.

They did previously state they want hit caps etc to be much much clearer in game to warn the uninitiated players who don't theorycraft or read forums that they aren't capped.

Yes, I did make that assumption since the spell hit mechanic has been the same for quite some time now and, as such, was not subject to change. Of course I may be wrong here, however. Also it seems I missed that blue post about "making hit caps clearer". Nevertheless, all we can do at the moment is speculate how things will work or turn out and considering that I thought those numbers might be interesting.
And yup, that was the link, thanks.

[khh]

imho, our mastery aint that bad, as long the its item budget for our mastery is done right.
it will allow us to use earth shock as a nuke on pvp, something enh shammie is rather lacking

also if it phases out LvB and/or FS then the merrier, simpler always rotation equals less places to screw up, and also we just got a new shinny cooldown called unleash elements to look for either way

if our mastery included our other spells, likely the % increase per rating would be much lower because of the FS+LvB and FrostShock in pvp, then it would just turn into a 2nd atack power, but worse

[Aknazer]

Greetings all. Long time reader, first time poster here at MMO-Champion.
I am going to have to respectively disagree with the comments that the previous builds with two points into Ancestral Swiftness will be the preferred raiding build (given that these talents go live). I am more inclined to agree with those that say that having points in Elemental Precision will be more advantageous. With the current content as a base line, I am having a very hard time coming up with a boss encounter (ICC, ToC, ULD) where having to have to move faster (constantly) or having to be a wolf meant the difference between a win and a wipe. This really seems more like a PvP talent than a PvE or even possibly a gimick fight. Where being able to move fast does mean the difference between a win and a lose.

On the flip side, I believe we can all agree that spell hit is critical for our class. Plus the more hit we can get from talents the more flexibility we have with our gems and enchantments. I also think it is reasonable to believe that there will be some itemization that can both fit Elementals and Enhancements.
Example:
A) Stam, Spirit, Crit, Haste, Hit
B) Agi, Stam, Crit, Haste, AP

The difference between the two examples would depend on ones gear at the time but I can definitely see numerous scenarios where the first example would prove to be better than the second. And if the crit cap is going to be well within our reach as it is now, then having more hit will beat out having more haste (is it does now).

Just my initial thoughts.

-Arrakus

Just so you know, the math on run speed was done ages ago (like back in tBC ages ago). It has been proven that so long as you have like 6 seconds of movement it was the best boot enchant. While the numbers will need to be adjusted for the talent and compared to what you could otherwise get, the talent is 97% better than the boot enchant on short movement ranges, and 500% better on long movement ranges (aka when GW is required). Further the crit cap isn't going to be within our reach as it was only within our reach this xpac due to them adding in heroic modes after wotlk shipped (they originally intended the ICC ilvl to be 245). Also neither of your gear options will exsist. If something has spirit on it it will also have int on it (a stat that will sim very low for us) along with not having hit on it (spirit will be a healer only stat with hybrids having a way to convert it so that blizz doesn't have to make even more specialized gear). In addition to that our gear won't have agi and AP on it as AGI is going to give 2AP and the AP stat is going going away (except for maybe a few situations where they want str and agi classes to use something, like rings and trinkets). So even with the additional spell hit you are simply giving up too much other stats that increase ALL of your damage just to try and buff some of your damage. It won't be worth it.

[Vargarii]

Just so you know, the math on run speed was done ages ago (like back in tBC ages ago). It has been proven that so long as you have like 6 seconds of movement it was the best boot enchant. While the numbers will need to be adjusted for the talent and compared to what you could otherwise get, the talent is 97% better than the boot enchant on short movement ranges, and 500% better on long movement ranges (aka when GW is required). Further the crit cap isn't going to be within our reach as it was only within our reach this xpac due to them adding in heroic modes after wotlk shipped (they originally intended the ICC ilvl to be 245). Also neither of your gear options will exsist. If something has spirit on it it will also have int on it (a stat that will sim very low for us) along with not having hit on it (spirit will be a healer only stat with hybrids having a way to convert it so that blizz doesn't have to make even more specialized gear). In addition to that our gear won't have agi and AP on it as AGI is going to give 2AP and the AP stat is going going away (except for maybe a few situations where they want str and agi classes to use something, like rings and trinkets). So even with the additional spell hit you are simply giving up too much other stats that increase ALL of your damage just to try and buff some of your damage. It won't be worth it.

Actually, the most recent math was done on ulduar level gear, and set the bar at over 20 seconds, I'm not sure who did the math to push it down to 10 in ICC gear, but that's the current word. This doesn't change the significant value of the talent, however.

@ Beric

As far as the hit capping, I'd heard that goat hit aura was being removed, which would lead to full 17% for cap. Was this truth or rumor? Anyone know?

[breric]

As far as the hit capping, I'd heard that goat hit aura was being removed, which would lead to full 17% for cap. Was this truth or rumor? Anyone know?

Removing it would sure make sense if they want to revamp the whole hit/spell hit system. But... I haven't heard anything about that... yet. However, what seems to be a fact is that the racials in general are all getting some tweaks. We'll see, I guess.

[evan_s]

I'm pretty sure the Draenei racial is being changed to something else. Blizzard has said they are removing all hit buffs/debuffs because it was awkward having to juggle the amount of hit you had based on your group composition. They did also say that then want to change things so that the hit cap doesn't get easier and easier to reach as gear improves. No clue how they are going to do that or what they are going to add so that people can actually tell, in game, how much hit they need.

[SolSphere]

They did specificy mention the racial being changed. Also don't got stuck on 17%. That is goig to change as well. Moreso than usual with a level cap. they are making stats harder to "Cap" and making things like crit, mastery, haste, etc. theoritically impossible to cap. they have already built a "ruff copy" of Deathwing gear in an effort to see what the stats would look like to ensure that those stats don't get capped.

Don't ask me where I read that I don't remember...


Stats like intellect (which is going to be SP (and probably why it was removed from our gear =( ) aren't capable stats anyway, so yay)

Anyway point of past was....do not get hung up on current cap values. They will be chaged.

[Omanley]

Are you sure with the reduced duration? my guess is, that FS will gain additional ticks, like rejuvenation.

nah, not sure. i saw someone mentioning that the dot duration is put back to what it was prior the patch buffing it. unfortunately i have no beta-key, so i cant say how it´s there. the newest spell list says it´s 18 second, like it´s life.

unless we have some talent or something to refresh it´s duration though, like ele has it with t10 bonus, i dont see us using fs/lvb in cata after getting heroic gear.

[Arrakus]

Completely agree that it is too early to determine standardized builds.

Perhaps then a question to be taken back to the developers is;
"Is it the developers intent to have a certain amount of itemized gear interchangeable between Elementals and Enhancements by having Elemental Precision on the second tier? And if so how much gear?"

I think this would help in our discussions.

-Arrakus

[Vargarii]

nah, not sure. i saw someone mentioning that the dot duration is put back to what it was prior the patch buffing it. unfortunately i have no beta-key, so i cant say how it´s there. the newest spell list says it´s 18 second, like it´s life.

unless we have some talent or something to refresh it´s duration though, like ele has it with t10 bonus, i dont see us using fs/lvb in cata after getting heroic gear.

I'm being really lazy right now(hence not digging up any quotes), but I thought that this was because they said they were changing hots/dots to be affected by haste differently. It was supposed to be that they were going to remain the same duration, but that haste would allow for more ticks during the duration.

---------- Post added 2010-07-16 at 08:28 PM ----------

Well, I couldn't even find it, so it could be fabricated memory. I don't know if this was supposed to be the case or not, anymore >.<

[Deleted]

Well, I couldn't even find it, so it could be fabricated memory. I don't know if this was supposed to be the case or not, anymore >.<

Nope you recall correctly it was one of Boubouille's news posts, check the news forum.

[Roknaar]

Nice to check on build threads for my secondary character and see 4 whole pages of back and forth theorycrafting and stat breakdowns...you guys should roll hunters and keep those theorycrafting threads from being de-railed!