Agi vs Strength scaling issue

[Deleted]

yes but str-based melees generally wear PLATE armour which compensates for the avoidance difference.

Armor or avoidance wont reduce the taken damage as dd in most encounters

[Dryade]

No i ment change all crit rating to agility, so that plate armor should have say, 150 strength, 150 agility, 180 stamina. Something like that

And make agility give more crit for war's palas and dk's.

This would mean that, a warrior with Kings, on live would have say 15k armor, 6000 ap, 40% crit, 5% dodge.

If you changed all crit rating to agility, and changed the crit coeffeciant you get from agility for wars dks and palas, that same warrior woulf have 20k armor, 6200 ap, 44% crit, and 27% dodge.

The attackpower would go up cos or armor increase, the surivability would go up, adn the crit would go up cos agility stacks with kings , unlike crit rating

Yes that would help right? So leather/mail wearers only get +Agility and +Stamina, were as Plate wearers receive +Strength, +Agility, +Stamina. So not only will Warriors/Paladins/DKs have massive amounts of Stamina, Armor, they also have Dodge, effectively making them unkillable.

[Athor]

Yes that would help right? So leather/mail wearers only get +Agility and +Stamina, were as Plate wearers receive +Strength, +Agility, +Stamina. So not only will Warriors/Paladins/DKs have massive amounts of Stamina, Armor, they also have Dodge, effectively making them unkillable.

No agility wearers would have agility stam and attackpower.

And dks already have 20% avoidance in dps gear on live, thanks to that parry talent, are they unkillable?

And cats can go bear and have more armor then a warrior with a shield on, with 30% dodge too.

And agility was on all plate back in vanilla and and on most in vanilla too.

And this is world of wizardcraft right now, so yeah maybe a buff for melee wouldnt help.

Right now the only situational offtanks are dps dks and dps ferals. With this change ret palas and dps warrios can be situatinal tanks too, and there dps would scale more evenly too

[Dryade]

Bears are supposed to have higher health, armor and dodge. Do you see bears running around with shields? Bears don't have parry or block.

There is a reason Agility is no longer on plate, plate wearers would become way to overpowered. +1 Str, +1 Agi = +3 AP per item, +dodge, +crit.. That is insane man. Not to mention the implications this would have in PvP.

How is a dps cat a situational tank more so than anyother tanking class? The only thing is crit immunity because of SotF which will be gone from a cats PoV in catyclysm. So unless a Feral druid specs specifically with OTing in mind then a dps druid can't tank.

Attackpower is gone from gear.

[Athor]

Bears are supposed to have higher health, armor and dodge. Do you see bears running around with shields? Bears don't have parry or block.

There is a reason Agility is no longer on plate, plate wearers would become way to overpowered. +1 Str, +1 Agi = +3 AP per item, +dodge, +crit.. That is insane man. Not to mention the implications this would have in PvP.

How is a dps cat a situational tank more so than anyother tanking class? The only thing is crit immunity because of SotF which will be gone from a cats PoV in catyclysm. So unless a Feral druid specs specifically with OTing in mind then a dps druid can't tank.

Attackpower is gone from gear.

What is wrong with warrios having 150 strength and 150 agility on there items, and rogues just having 300 agility. As 2 agility for rogues would equal 1 strenght 1 agility for warriors? The rogue will still end up with more dodge gained, just not 30% more then equivalent geared warrios.

And an arms warrior has 10% avoidance with 5% block with a sheild on. Where as a dps cat when he switches to bear form will have 30% avoidance, prolly more. And block = that 2000 shield aborbs bears get every 6 secs. A dk will have 20% avoidance. A ret pala 10% aswell.

So it would mean warriors would be buffed compared to other melee, thanks to overpower, but all other melee will also dodge more so they woudl be the same as before in comparison to each other. And dont forget, dps will scale better for all classes.

[Arathull]

agility only gives 1 attack power to shamans hunters and rogues, druids i think are the only class who get 2 if they even get 2. what we dont make up for in raw attack power we make up for in raw crit

[Deleted]

Ok, fair enough. I did not know that Agi doesn't provide 2 AP / point. That obviously balances out the issue of offensive scaling differences.

It still doesn't justify the difference in defensive scaling though. Agi and Strength should both provide similar effective defense per point.

As for the DKs getting Parry from Strength. Making it baseline would obviously negate the need for such a talent in the first place.

[Vasz]

Strength based classes get plate, they also get more stam on gear to balance out the ilevel because str doesn't give as much as agi does for the reasons you have mentioned already.

Not any longer, all armor types have the same amount of stamina.

[Vasz]

agility only gives 1 attack power to shamans hunters and rogues, druids i think are the only class who get 2 if they even get 2. what we dont make up for in raw attack power we make up for in raw crit

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Enh shaman, hunters and rogues all get 2 AP per 1AGI.

[Samin]

agility only gives 1 attack power to shamans hunters and rogues, druids i think are the only class who get 2 if they even get 2. what we dont make up for in raw attack power we make up for in raw crit

Please check your facts before posting
Currently all agi based classes gain 1 AP per 1 agi.
In Cata all agi based classes are supposed to get 2 AP per 1 agi. (and I'm sure that is what the topic is about...cata forum and stuff)

Blizzard WILL balance it, so agi classes benefit a bit less from AP then strength classes via ability coefficients (to make up for the + of crit via agi).
Seriously the fear that some people have that one class will be unplayable and nobody wants it in their raids is ridiculous. Stop it. We're not in classic wow anymore.

They already designed the last tier of cataclsym stat-wise, so they know how the scaling will turn out.

[Pope]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Enh shaman, hunters and rogues all get 2 AP per 1AGI.

No U!
Rogues, Hunters, Shamans and Cat druids gain 1 point AP per 1 Point of Agi.
Bears gain NO AP from Agility.
Cats, Surv/MM-hunters and Sub-rogues have multipliers, which increase their agility. But they still gain 1 point AP per agility.

But in cataclysm, all agi-based classes will gain 2 Ap per agility.
So the OP is right with his concern, because we will gain the same amount of AP, but armor + dodge + crit, what strength classes don't get.

But, like the blue posts said, they are not concerned with it, because with higher gear levels, crit becomes less important.
And they can easily fix this problem by letting Paladins/DKs/warriors scale better with crit rating, like they did in 3.1. with haste rating.

Nearly everybody who posted in this thread spread false information, this is really a shame.

[Svenskpally]

Make str ignore armor. Its good or awsome on all melee classes that wears plate.

Str provides 2 ap
X extra melee dmg

Agi provides 2 ap
X crit rating


Str makes u hit harder. U get more power and you strike harder therefore each melee attack are hevyer and hits fore more dmg. This is not the same as ap becous it wont scale on spells. u will just hit for 500+ the normal wepon swing and paladins consecration Dk Death and Decay wont hit fore more. It only counts on the melee attacks. Problem is tho that Warriors will hit for alot due to not having any spells. Dont have a good solution for it atm.

[Vasz]

Nearly everybody who posted in this thread spread false information, this is really a shame.

Well assuming the OP is talking about Cataclysm, the info i posted was not wrong.

We are just talking offensive now
1 INT adds: 1SP, small ammount of crit
1 AGI adds: 2AP, small ammount of crit.
1 STR adds: 2AP

Now these 3 stats will become your main focus in Cataclysm, and they will be stacked VERY high end game.

NOW, this is what was not added to my last post about STR. STR using classes (apart from warriors) double dip from one stat. Pallys and DKs get spellpower from STR.

[Dryade]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Enh shaman, hunters and rogues all get 2 AP per 1AGI.

1 Agi = 1.18 AP for Feral Druids, now whether or not that is the same with Hunters, Rogues, and Shamans I don't know.

[Will]

Armor or avoidance wont reduce the taken damage as dd in most encounters

but remember, the game isn't based solely around PvE encounters. Blizzard considers the ability to wear plate a perk in itself.
Furthermore the original poster included the agi-dodge conversion in his list of reasons why agility is 'imbalanced' so i was pointing out the avoidance and armor benefits are trivial at best.

[Deleted]

Well the whole point of this debate is to have offensive stats and defensive stats scale at roughly the same rate, or we end up with too high damage towards the end.

World of Roguecraft explained the problem pretty well in Episode III, from about 3:30 onwards: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...4987536909771#