Is Nibelung worth it for locks?

[Granpa]

I know at one time this staff was great because of how it procced, then it got nerfed. At the moment I have Nibelung, Abracadaver, and Heroic Midnight Sun/Scouragelord's Baton as my weapon choices. What I want to know is if Nibelung is worth using for any lock spec considering the large amount of stats you're giving up for a proc. If so, what spec is it best for?

Thanks in advance.

And sorry if this was posted before, the search feature is disabled atm.

[Caltharion]

Personally, if i see a warlock running around with a staff over MH/OH combo i get kinda aggravated.
Nible is decent but very RNG, if you dont get the valks to spawn often enough then you get kinda shafted in dps

but i do mostly see the Demo/Destro locks running around with it.

[Dethh]

MH,OH>Staff

[Cronic]

Because you have the heroic midnight sun/OH combo, Nibelung would not be good for you. All the stats you are giving up for a random proc will outweigh the dps of the Valks when they are up. Not to mention "all" of the stats from the OH you are losing.

[xionkarl]

MH,OH>Staff

Heroic Abracadaver > Heroic Frost Needle + Normal Shadowsilk Spindle

Gaining 10 Spellpower just isn't worth giving up 36 Haste.

[Devlin1991]

not to intervene on another class forum..

but do any of you have any numbers at all to back up your claims or are they all "opinions" since he is asking for proof not opinion.

[allforone]

The proc on nibelung is insane.
E.G. I have Frozen bonespike+scourgelord's baton, Abracadaver and Nibelung.(all reg.)(MH+OH has Black magic instead of SP because BM is just noticeably better(and it's fun to get Hyperspeed+BM+eradication all proccing at once and get 50-60% haste.)

Proc is very heavy on RNG, On short trash you can get lucky and spawn one ASAP and see yourself doing 10-20% more damage. On long fights it seems to normalize for me to about 300-400dps more than abra gives me(which in turn gives about 200-300 more dps than the MH+OH give me.
Also add that the proc looks damn cool. Especially when you get multiple on SoC trash pulls.

[ComputerNerd]

On a mobile fight, with good RNG then the valkyrs will be doing some of the work when you cannot.
But on an aoe heavy fight they will tend not to survive very long, so RNG plays one part, and the specific fight another.

[aarondf2003]

It's not worth it for any class/spec currently if you're raiding ICC. Blizzard decided to not classify the valks as 'pets'. Because of this, they don't scale with the ICC buff as other pets do.

For example, a MH/OH with all itemization instead of stats, is effectively getting a 25% buff in stats (30% come this Tuesday). Nibelung however, would only have the spellpower effectively buffed. You are not only trading constant stats for very RNG dependent valks, but you're trading the stats that get buffed for a proc that does not.

Additionally, there are more fights in ICC where the valks can't self-heal themselves enough to compete than there are fights where they shine.

[allforone]

On a mobile fight, with good RNG then the valkyrs will be doing some of the work when you cannot.
But on an aoe heavy fight they will tend not to survive very long, so RNG plays one part, and the specific fight another.

Yeah true. I only got Nibelung last week so it hasn't seen the inside of ICC yet, but it's served me quite well in the HPoS and HOcc randoms I've been through.
Doesn't seem to proc off of individual drain life/soul tics, and procs like mad off of SoC, I think one even procced off of a sapper charge I used.

I haven't had a chance to test it out, but a comment on wowhead suggests that they are more than just hit-capped, as the guy commented that a valkyr he had out didn't miss against a CoS-ed rogue.

[Humungo]

The proc chance is reported at 2% after the nerf. So no, no sane number cruncher would use it. I however am not a sane number cruncher, eh hehe he ehheehehh ehehehehe ehhehehhhe eeehhee!

[allforone]

****SIMPLE Theorycrafting AHEAD*******

Yeah 2% proc rate with no ICD. Bout the same as our nightfall procs.

For me in aff 1 point sp is about 1.7 dps, 1pnt haste is about 1.65, crit is about 0.8 dps per point and int is 0.3dps per point.(So yes, Black Magic is better for me than Mighty spellpower)

Frozen Bonespike(264)(black magic) and Scourgelord's Baton(251) give 859sp, ~71 haste, 106 crit and 128 int after Life tap and fel armor.
Abracadaver(+81+23+23sp) gives 784sp, 136 haste and 128 int.
Maghari Chieftain's Staff(+81+23+23sp) gives 852sp, 136 haste and 101 int after life tap and fel armor.
Nibelung(+81sp+23sp+12sp/10spi+7sp) gives 869sp and 109 int after life tap and fel armor. The Valkyr seem to have about 30% uptime for aff locks, and do about 1000dps when they are up(So we'll say they add 300dps)
Into DPS
FB+SB = 1460 + 117 + 86 + 38 === 1701 dps
Abra == 1333 + 226 + 38 ======== 1597
MCS === 1448 + 226 + 30 ======== 1704
Nibe == 1477 + 33 = 1510 + 300 = 1810

Now let's add in 25%/30% damage buff.
FB+SB = 2126/2211
Abra == 1996/2076
MCS === 2130/2215
Nibe == 2188/2263

Even without the guardians being affected by the ICC buff, nibelung appears competitive with the MH/OH and MCS.

[Linwelina]

****SIMPLE Theorycrafting AHEAD*******

Says the lock with black magic mkay

Edit: Forgot the most important thing, Nibelung is not really good

[deyndra]

A bit awkward I got it on my former main (lock)...Just had way worse weapons before that hehe.

[Mix]

Hmm I have to agree that I do not see many locks with Nibelung. Have you tried running your weapon options through the lock spreadsheet/simcraft.

Also, not sure what all the hating on staves is in here. While I tended to always go MH/OH there was a staff from Felmyst in BC that was better and http://www.wowhead.com/item=50429 (the lich king staff) is a very nice item for a Demo lock raid buffing. (until you have access to the heroic MH/OH combos because getting the heroic LK version is gonna take awhile!

[Certin]

I tried this staff when i took it for testing when noone else wanted it as a demo lock and it was fun ill admit but not really proccing that much for me.

Without hijacking this thread i wanted to see what you guys thought of this staff http://www.wowhead.com/item=50725#dropped-by
I´ve been using now and quite like it, havent done the math though how it would compare to MH / OH that i can currently get.

[Granpa]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I must say I don't agree that mh/oh is always better than a staff. I perform a lot better using the Abracadaver because of the haste on it than I do using my Heroic MS/Baton in Demo spec.

From my experience, Niebelung just doesn't seem to proc enough to warrant using it at all, but I was wondering if other had a better experience with a specific spec.

Thanks again.

---------- Post added 2010-07-19 at 04:17 PM ----------

I tried this staff when i took it for testing when noone else wanted it as a demo lock and it was fun ill admit but not really proccing that much for me.

Without hijacking this thread i wanted to see what you guys thought of this staff http://www.wowhead.com/item=50725#dropped-by
I´ve been using now and quite like it, havent done the math though how it would compare to MH / OH that i can currently get.

From the stats on it, it looks tailor made for locks, though I fear some groups saying "healer preference" because it has no hit and has spirit ... if you don't need the hit, that staff is sexy as hell.

[Certin]

well, healer preferance sure, but when it dropped no one asked for it except me hehe

allthough the holy priest admitted later that he had propably made a mistake by not requesting it.

[Overwelm]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I must say I don't agree that mh/oh is always better than a staff. I perform a lot better using the Abracadaver because of the haste on it than I do using my Heroic MS/Baton in Demo spec.

From my experience, Niebelung just doesn't seem to proc enough to warrant using it at all, but I was wondering if other had a better experience with a specific spec.

Thanks again.

---------- Post added 2010-07-19 at 04:17 PM ----------



From the stats on it, it looks tailor made for locks, though I fear some groups saying "healer preference" because it has no hit and has spirit ... if you don't need the hit, that staff is sexy as hell.

I feel bad for you if spirit gear has a healer pref. in your groups No healers should get anymore priority over spirit gear, as both mages and locks can use it to their advantage just as much...Now hit getting DPS pref and MP5 getting heal pref is okay..

[Charo]

No real raid leader would give that staff to a druid or priest over a demo / destro warlock solely based on class alone.