Looking to Transform into a fire mage

[extine]

So I played my mage through pre-bc, bc, and now WOTLK. I raided on my mage a bit during the Naxx times then retired him, and am now bringing him back for the final days of wrath and hopefully for the days of cata I've been playing fire since i can remember, however, as the game progressed, so has my lust for competition.

I loved the play style of fire when I tried it, and while I do like arcane, fire just seems so much more appealing. I've spreadsheeted my mage via Vontre's Magegraf tool, and right now Arcane comes out on top with a potential 7718DPS whereas fire is behind at 7290DPS (approx. 5.5% behind.) No buffs are included in this sim.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=J%C3%B6tunn - My armory.

(Ignore the pure haste gem in legs, those are likely to be replaced soon. If I remember I was using those legs for pvp because I was too lazy to farm pvp legs at the time.)


If need be I'll run sims on RAWR as well. But is there anyway to change my setup enough to where fire comes out on top without losing where I'm at now? As in, I don't want my gear setup to end up having fire at 7500 and arcane at 7300, I want to be higher than I am now.

Also if this just isn't possible at my current gear level, when/can fire out-perform arcane? I've had a few brief conversations with other mages in top end guilds on my server (HM 25lk down mages) but when asked they've only really said it's good for LK.


TL;DR - When is fire viable for outperforming other specs entirely?


EDIT: Just ran another sim via RAWR 2.3.20

Arcane with all buffs + 25% ICC buff - 9913.68

Fire with all buffs + 25% ICC buff - 9816.29

[Mcchikn]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...din&cn=Mcchikn

Id say around the point where you can be fire hit capped....have 800+ haste and what not. Thats when id go for fire. But as you can see i logged in arcane gear not my fire gear ( damn extended maint.

[Swizzle]

when you have 14% hit on your gear and you are in ICC. seriously, that's all it takes for fire to beat arcane...the hit and the ICC buff.

that being said, once you are in full BiS, fire beats arcane by boat loads due to the insane crit scaling on our best gear.

[extine]

Awesome, thanks Is there any minimum baseline crit I need? If I remember, buffed up in icc I'm running around with 35% crit or so (I would imagine 50%+ after crit talents for fire)

EDIT:

Another thing I noticed on RAWR; when showing my possible gear upgrades, for yellow sockets it's showing 12SP/10int ahead of 12sp/10haste. Anyone have an explanation as to why int would be of higher value?

[Moropo]

I wonder where you guys pull out the figure of 800 haste needed for fire? I really do wonder.

[Swizzle]

I wonder where you guys pull out the figure of 800 haste needed for fire? I really do wonder.

it's the GCD cap with the mage t10 2 piece bonus and it is the amount that let's you get off 3 hasted fireballs under the proc effect.

[_Fire_]

(I think) Fire usually out performs Arcane on almost every fight because of Movement, Mana Efficiency, and it beats Arcane by a landslide once you start getting BiS gear. I personally have always been fire because I like the play style and the ability to push more then 2 buttons (other then cds:P). The only time I ever went arcane was during ToGC and I hated it. So pretty much once you go fire you (might) never go back

[sidphoenix]

Awesome, thanks Is there any minimum baseline crit I need? If I remember, buffed up in icc I'm running around with 35% crit or so (I would imagine 50%+ after crit talents for fire)

EDIT:

Another thing I noticed on RAWR; when showing my possible gear upgrades, for yellow sockets it's showing 12SP/10int ahead of 12sp/10haste. Anyone have an explanation as to why int would be of higher value?

almost universally If you are getting int as a recommended gemming, you are missing buffs for mana replenishment. a 5 minute fight will OOM you if your haste is reasonable and you are not getting good replen-just go turn on all the buffs, and generally that will solve it(as long as you take the talents that give you mana back:master of elements and empowered fire)

[Reinhard von Lohengramm]

this sounds interesting....i thought you needed like 277 gear for fire...but..heh
i plan on going fire when there is another mage around to provide the 3% buff and theres a boom/spriest in raid.(i haz 2 pug mmk)

but.....big question: i heard the 800 haste softcap, but with my gear switching its only 760....unless i replace my muradins and nerf my crit/sp for my abyssal rune (thoughts)
also, to be hitcapped even with 3% hit debuff i need 2 use a hit trink, so would that make it an automatic no-no till i get something else? (marrowgar ring, buy another belt, lootship neck)

[Dazed]

Putricide: Yes it would, if you cant get hit-capped, your worth fuck all.
OP: Basically your haste value is alright atm, what you really want is atleast 50% crit, but i'll advise 55%+ fire crit to be really efficient
Now due to the EU Maintenence i can't login /sadface, and i can't show you my setup, but i run with 45% fire crit with Molten Armor(other than that, unbuffed) and 900 haste, that haste i could easily drop.
As someone stated tho, as long as your hit-capped, the ICC buff works wonders with ignite and the liking, fire scales immensely with dmg% increases

[Reinhard von Lohengramm]

Putricide: Yes it would, if you cant get hit-capped, your worth fuck all.
OP: Basically your haste value is alright atm, what you really want is atleast 50% crit, but i'll advise 55%+ fire crit to be really efficient
Now due to the EU Maintenence i can't login /sadface, and i can't show you my setup, but i run with 45% fire crit with Molten Armor(other than that, unbuffed) and 900 haste, that haste i could easily drop.
As someone stated tho, as long as your hit-capped, the ICC buff works wonders with ignite and the liking, fire scales immensely with dmg% increases

mmk, now to figure out trinks b4 i can get a better hit upgrade

basicly im at 43.22% fire crit unbuffed and 749 haste, with muradins+shard(once i get a hit upgrade im going to ditch the shard and use Muradins+abyssal untill i get something better.
but with shard+abyssal im at 40.37% crit and 833 haste, so im past the 2pt10 3 fireball softcap as above.
im just pondering which is better, but sometimes i have been able to get like 55% crit with FM up and raid buffs as arcane so i think a half decent raid could up mah crit some.

[Laadeeda]

My thoughts on the whole issue of switching from arcane to fire:

If you can get the 14% hit without using one of the hit trinkets, do it. The quill does have a sexy amount of SP gain on it, but CD stacking is more for arcane.

I think people's view of how good your gear must be to pull decent dps with fire is over-inflated.

I switched to fire when I got the 264 Frost Needle, Scourgelord's Baton, and Spyglass. I think i was 1/4 Sanctified at this point. I suppose that's pretty good gear but it certainly isnt BiS. I didnt have DFO yet so thats just icing on my cake. 3 hasted fireballs is pretty sweet.

When you're looking at your spell crit remember that many fire spells get +crit from talents, the +crit to individual spells is not taken into account on your character page. Fully raidbuffed I currently get ~70% crit on my FBs and they're 2.2s casts (2.1 /w black magic, 1.8 with 2Pt10, 1.7 with both, and they dip to 1.2 when i Hero while i hero in ToC.

Also, the gemming is totally different, reckless to potent - you should get a pretty big 100-150 haste to crit swing.

[Hinalover]

Me personally, I switched to fire once I got Sindragosa's Phylactery of the Nameless Lich. The proc on the trinket is really what makes fire so powerful in ICC. The trinket is almost useless for Arcane, but is BiS for Fire. Now to get the DFO to drop again (next in line to get the trinket in my guild) and I'll be a happy camper.