Imroved Blood Presence

[Foibles]

I thought they stated that there would be more tanks in Cata because it would be as simple as switching to defensive stance/blood presence etc. Isn't putting Imp BP so far down the tree preventing this?

GC has a recent post answering a similar question. His response was basically Arms, Ret, Unholy, etc will be able to tank normals with their threat stance because the much larger health pools making the burst and gib deaths less likely.

[Zookz25]

Imp blood presence has to be my least favorite thing out of all the death knight changes.

Really, two talent points for 6% crit reduction is sad, and I severely hope they plan on changing this by either sticking the crit reduction into something like toughness, or making the talent more then something that should be base-line anyways.

They have even said that the 6% crit should be baked in, but were against it due to druids.

Fix this shit blizz, *napoleon dynamite voice* Gosh!

[Narshe]

I dont understand why they dont put the crit immunity into Toughness for each tank class (and Thick Hide for Druid) and move it down the tree to where only tanks can spec for it. Every tank class grabs that talent to increase armor so why not include the crit reduction...

[Organoth]

The problem is the bonus other then being crit immune applies to doing something other then tanking. We won't be tanking in anything but Blood Presence so keeping the damage reduction in either Frost/Unholy is just useless. Not every talent needs to be OP but it should at least apply to what they intend for us to do in that talent tree. I think everything else in the latest is build is fairly cool and I also like that you are able to reach Morbidity again in the Unholy tree again.

[Foibles]

Why does every talent NEED to have something else tacked on? The point of IBP is the 6% crit reduction. That is why we take it. It doesn't need anything else. Especially with the latest beta build, Blood is a lot less bloated.

Just because Bastion of Defense and Sanctuary have other effects doesn't mean IBP does.

[Brince]

Why does every talent NEED to have something else tacked on? The point of IBP is the 6% crit reduction. That is why we take it. It doesn't need anything else. Especially with the latest beta build, Blood is a lot less bloated.

Just because Bastion of Defense and Sanctuary have other effects doesn't mean IBP does.

Well the point is this one though. Why every other tank class has a nice crit immunity talent while ours is awful?
Design a crap talent for the other tanks with only crit immunity and i'll be happy with imp blood presence as it is now.

[Pickwickman]

Well the point is this one though. Why every other tank class has a nice crit immunity talent while ours is awful?
Design a crap talent for the other tanks with only crit immunity and i'll be happy with imp blood presence as it is now.

'cause they need that extra lil bonus and we don't? As we have them in other talents?

I do agree on them being able to put it into another talent, but it's not too bad.

[Deleted]

Instead of saying "Fix This Shit Blizz" (yeah cause they really read MMO-Champion, get real) why don't you do the smart thing and suggest a fix?

I personally like it as is, it doesn't look like it does much but the amount of incoming Damage it reduces by making your Crit Immune is insane.

[Raugnaut]

A nice fix would be something like adding a +50/100% healing of damage done, or something like that. It would really mix in well with Blood's current mastery. Self healing + absorb. Maybe make it a bit less, 25/50%

[Onahail]

You aren't being forced to take it. If the 2 points aren't worth it to be CRIT IMMUNE then put them somewhere else. I'll be taking them, because I think 2 points for 6% reduced crit chance is pretty fucking cool in and of itself. Not having to deal with defense? Fuck yeah, that's awesome. You guys are pretty fucking spoiled IMO.

Who gives a shit what the other classes get, are you those other classes? I don't think so. Look at all the tools and shit you have that they don't have. Are they bitching about that? No. So stfu and deal with it. You don't need something else tacked on to it. Being able to just hop into Blood Presence and be crit immune for 2 talents is pretty god damn worth it.

[zox]

I love how you read my post, took one part out, and argued that. I KNOW we won't have Defense in Cataclysm. I'm happy we won't have defense in Cataclysm. A 2 point talent beats the shit out of having to juggle with the defense cap. You all seem to have forgotten that.

Everyone hated the defense mechanic, so Blizzard throws you a bone and gives it to you via talents. Now you have this and demand the talent give you some extra little perk. Blizz gives you an inch and you demand a mile. Fucking be happy with what you're getting.

Why should we? Blizz said that they will put the crit reduction in a talent which a tank would take anyway. 4% damage reduction in other presences is not what I'd take.
They said they want to present us with fun talents. IBP is not fun in any way.

[Onahail]

Why should we? Blizz said that they will put the crit reduction in a talent which a tank would take anyway. 4% damage reduction in other presences is not what I'd take.
They said they want to present us with fun talents. IBP is not fun in any way.

Then don't take it and just not be crit immune if it bugs you that much. I personally will take it just for the fact that it makes me crit immune. I think that's pretty fucking awesome in and of itself. You are spoiled.

Each tree has an improved precense talent that Blizz expects you to take. Unholy is 2% haste, Frost is 2% additional bonus damage, Blood is 6% reduced chance to be crit. Yeah I agree the 4% damage reduction in other presences is sub par, but it's not why you take the talent. You take it because it makes you crit immune.

DKs are different than other classes, they didn't have a set tanking tree. Now they do. Every spec has you taking the improved presence talent. Blizz did this so Blood wouldn't be the only tree without a useful improved presence talent.

[Greenmahn]

Nope you are not the only one... Blizzard stated they want to put the 6% crit reduction in talents tanks would pick up anyway... they did it with all tanks except dk´s... just getting the crit immunity while the rest gets much more is kind of sad and i hope they will fix this

Oh really with all other tanks please show me where Druids even get a crit immune talent?
That being said its Beta and things will change but this one will probably stay.

[Deleted]

Druids had a Crit Immunity Talent for a long time, longer than any other Tank.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=33856

Kindly note this is a live Spell I am linking.

[Greenmahn]

Instead of saying "Fix This Shit Blizz" (yeah cause they really read MMO-Champion, get real) why don't you do the smart thing and suggest a fix?

I personally like it as is, it doesn't look like it does much but the amount of incoming Damage it reduces by making your Crit Immune is insane.

Actualy GC and the others have stated time and time again that they read other forums :} so yes they read it but QQing about it wont change anything give them an idea to work with :} just saying hey this is broke fix it when this is how they fixed it in their eyes is silly i fyou think its broken give them your solution so they can see that to and then they decide if they can work with your solution most times not cause most of player solutions are Make my class OP and nerf all other classes :P

---------- Post added 2010-07-23 at 09:38 AM ----------

Druids had a Crit Immunity Talent for a long time, longer than any other Tank.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=33856

Kindly note this is a live Spell I am linking.

Yes we had that for along time and it was OP i agree but currently in BETA we dont have one :P cause they havent yet implemented one cause they havent decided where to put it Just stating its Beta hings change this is only the third pass on the Talent builds. I am concerned that druids dont have one yet but not to worried it will be in there soon(tm)

[zox]

Then don't take it and just not be crit immune if it bugs you that much. I personally will take it just for the fact that it makes me crit immune. I think that's pretty fucking awesome in and of itself. You are spoiled.

Obviously everyone will take it, that's not the question, but put it into a talent that I would take because (sans the 6% crit reduction) that talent would make me a better tank!

Pala:
Reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by [2%/4%/6%]. In addition when you block or dodge a melee attack you gain [1%/2%/3%] of maximum mana.
-little bland, and a bit overpriced at 3 points, but sanctuary is a traditional talent that every paladin tank did and will take

Warr:
Reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by [3%/6%]. In addition, when you block, dodge or parry an attack you have a [50%/100%] chance to become Enraged, increasing physical damage done by [5%/10%] for 12 sec.
-nice talent, enrage can be used as a defensive CD while enrage provides extra dps.

Druid:
-baked in dire bear? can't find a talent that gives crit reduction...

DK:
-4% damage reduction in presences we NEVER use while tanking...
That's not right.

[Foibles]

Well the point is this one though. Why every other tank class has a nice crit immunity talent while ours is awful?
Design a crap talent for the other tanks with only crit immunity and i'll be happy with imp blood presence as it is now.

Essentially, the other kids received some sort of treat, and you need yours to either be on par (or better) or theirs needs to be made worse.

What a terrible attitude.

[Ashareth]

Why does every talent NEED to have something else tacked on? The point of IBP is the 6% crit reduction. That is why we take it. It doesn't need anything else. Especially with the latest beta build, Blood is a lot less bloated.

Just because Bastion of Defense and Sanctuary have other effects doesn't mean IBP does.

No one said the crit immunity talent SHOULD have something else bundled in, just that, right now (and after 3 builds chaning things, amongst them moving around the crit immunity for War/Pal to more desirable talents), but that SINCE War/Pal have that immunity bundled into talents that gives something between useful and REALLY useful talents (ie : talents you would spent the 2 points in without the 6% crit immunity) it's sad and not normal and biased that DK are forced to spend 2 points in a useless talent just fort crit immunity.

The Druid question is something else, for quite some time when i saw the crit immunity moved away from stance/presence/form and suchn to talents, i thought everyone would be equal on it, but right now, unless they put the crit immunity on bear form, druid don't have it anymore.

It should be made the same for all (either bundled into the "tanking" stance/presence/buff/form) or into a deep "prot" talent that only benefit tanks (even for druids, since it's not fair that they can be "on-the-fly-tanks" and don't bother about def cap when everyone else do :/).

Right now, we've got that :
- 2 specs with a really interesting 2 pts talent that everyone would take just for the talent benefits, and the crit immunity is a "bonus"
- 1 spec where the "crit immunity" is a 2 pts talent that is, at best, shitty as hell for a tank, and you only take for crit immunity
- 1 spec where the crit immunity seems bundled into the form (ie : allowing any druid, whatever the spec, to tank for a reasonable amount of time due to being crit-immune when all other tank class/spec won't ever be able to do that...)

PS : and for all the kidies moving it to the field of "you are jealous and should let others have their place in the sun", first, you are the ones always whining everytime YOUR class isn't the top notch (be it in pvp or pve) anymore.
Second, strangely MOST of the tanks out there have 2/3/4 of the tanking classes at, max levels and aren't trying to end up in the "i'm that class i should have a "I WIN" button"", but have something pretty balanced.

Taking me as example, i've got 3 of the 4 tanking classes at 80, two of them RS-ready, the third one lagging behing and being "only" ICC10-ready, the 4th one being on the way.
Now i never thought the bundled-in crit immunity into druid was "too much" it was put in like the ret/prot pally using normal plate dps/prot gear, because otherwise you end up with people that can't gear up due to lack of drops and a lot of people frustrated when drops 23/24 out of 25 people CAN'T use ever....

Bundling crit-immunity into talents/stances (presences/form and such) was a good move.
But now that it IS in fact done, i don't see how it's fair (or can even be balanced) that one spec only have crit immunity into the talent when all the others have crit-immunity AND something else.

The best thing that could happen is, indeed, moving Toughness (3 out of the 4 tank specs have it) and the equivalent one in Druid tree, deep enough that only tanks can grab it, and bundle crit-immunity into it, so that every tank will be even on this one, and will move into a " you can change/move every talent for balance if you need, the main thing needed by all tank is the same amongst all of them).

And, before you start shouting out, i'm the first one to advocate keeping the different playstyle, but when you have all different spec/classes of a role having one talent (or the same talent bundled under different names), bundle into it things that should be baseline under the new design( ie : you should get crit immunity by specing prot and not by taking deeep prot talents).

[Ssith]

i still think it should be baseline in Defensive stance, Bear form, Righteous Fury and Blood Presence, screw this "talenting into it" crap. if they want us to take Imp Blood Pres, change it to what Toughness is, and have it reduce damage by another 3% (imp frost pres on live) and be done with it.

[Shelly]

What I think the real question is, if improved BP remains this boring will we eventually just try and save ourselves 2 points from a bloated tree (and ALL the tank trees are bloated) and just equip PvP gear? Which is currently a possible option ONLY for DKs.

Because I have to say if I can sneak in 3 or 4 pieces of PvP gear that will maintain my crit immunity, which then lets me pick up an extra "fun" talent, which would then probably lose me some avoidance then I'm going for the fun talent.