Imroved Blood Presence

[Aldurok]

What I think the real question is, if improved BP remains this boring will we eventually just try and save ourselves 2 points from a bloated tree (and ALL the tank trees are bloated) and just equip PvP gear? Which is currently a possible option ONLY for DKs.

Because I have to say if I can sneak in 3 or 4 pieces of PvP gear that will maintain my crit immunity, which then lets me pick up an extra "fun" talent, which would then probably lose me some avoidance then I'm going for the fun talent.

That's actually a really good point. Previously resilience gear was bad because defense gave you more, but with defense gone and the talent only giving crit immunity, resilience gear might be good. Add the high stamina values typically on pvp gear (if they're keeping that trend) and you've got a mighty fine case for freeing up talent points.

[Khaoticsuccubus]

Cata won't be such an aoefest. Even when we outgear the mobs to the point all of them wailing on the tank won't easily kill us, there will still be MCs and fears and other things.

But we won't know till release. Personally I think DnD should have the high threat componant removed and just have a baseline cooldown of 10-15 seconds. Currently on live, having 2pcT10, Glyph of DnD and 3/3 Morbidity makes it pretty unnecessary to do anything but put it down and wait for dps to kill the packs in Heroics.

Yeah from what I've seen of cata so far its been the same ae we've always done. Throne of Tides for example, practically nothing but ae with obligatory gauntlet run n all.

[Foibles]

PS : and for all the kidies moving it to the field of "you are jealous and should let others have their place in the sun", first, you are the ones always whining everytime YOUR class isn't the top notch (be it in pvp or pve) anymore.
Second, strangely MOST of the tanks out there have 2/3/4 of the tanking classes at, max levels and aren't trying to end up in the "i'm that class i should have a "I WIN" button"", but have something pretty balanced.

Sweeping generalizations. And no, my DK is one of three tanks I have, and I don't need anything but crit reduction on IBP.

Righteous Fury

This would give Holy and Ret a 6% crit reduction at all times in pvp

What I think the real question is, if improved BP remains this boring will we eventually just try and save ourselves 2 points from a bloated tree (and ALL the tank trees are bloated) and just equip PvP gear? Which is currently a possible option ONLY for DKs.

Because I have to say if I can sneak in 3 or 4 pieces of PvP gear that will maintain my crit immunity, which then lets me pick up an extra "fun" talent, which would then probably lose me some avoidance then I'm going for the fun talent.

What? ALL tanks can wear pvp gear right now to tank if they want. At least for a while, the T2 weapon was BiS for Ferals.

[Aldurok]

What? ALL tanks can wear pvp gear right now to tank if they want. At least for a while, the T2 weapon was BiS for Ferals.

While they technically can, it's considered a bad idea as you get more for your crit immunity with defense.

Defense gone and talent not worth picking up for anything but crit immunity means pvp gear with resilience and high stam looks amazing for DK tanks and allows them to not waste 2 points.

[Shelly]

What? ALL tanks can wear pvp gear right now to tank if they want. At least for a while, the T2 weapon was BiS for Ferals.

Indeed they can and I'm actually rather surprised I don't see more pvp-geared tanks in the LFD.

And don't forget that PvP gear was easier to come by than Tier gear in BC which is why you had so many people running around in their season 2 gear and the like. Also from a pure EH standpoint the PvP weapons rate up higher than many of the normal mode weapons because of the gobs of stamina on them.

Anyway, right now we have defense rating which - even for DKs - is a heavy stat since it lets the tank reach crit immunity, gives dodge, parry, chance to be missed and block chance to warriors and paladins. This stat is going the way of the dodo, so the question we're left with is at what point will the extra avoidance, expertise, hit and probably mastery on PvE gear outweigh crit immunity through resil and 2 talent points that we can put into a "fun" ability elsewhere.

Remember that with the new condensed trees too that those talent points - and glyphs which themselves are currently the equal to 1 to 3 talent points on live - become much more valuable real estate.

I can think of a LOT more talents I'd like to sink 2 points into rather than just IBP as it is now.

[Foibles]

While they technically can, it's considered a bad idea as you get more for your crit immunity with defense.

Defense gone and talent not worth picking up for anything but crit immunity means pvp gear with resilience and high stam looks amazing for DK tanks and allows them to not waste 2 points.

Tank gear is still going to have dodge/parry on it.

[Sy]

afaik resilience in cataclysm will ONLY be affecting other players attacks. so, no crit immunity for tanks with pvp gear.

[Ashareth]

Sweeping generalizations. And no, my DK is one of three tanks I have, and I don't need anything but crit reduction on IBP.


This would give Holy and Ret a 6% crit reduction at all times in pvp



What? ALL tanks can wear pvp gear right now to tank if they want. At least for a while, the T2 weapon was BiS for Ferals.

YEEEPEEE, so because one frigging item in ONE slot was BiS at some point in WotLK it means that it's "normal" and "nothing new" to plan to be full (or nearmy full) pvp gear in cata ??

Yeah, it's what i thought.... :/


Now,i don't know how it will fare or work, but it's normal that some people starts interogating themselves about using the 2pts talent for crit immunity OR using some/a lot of pvp gear to reach that.
If you don't, it means you have no understanding of any tank class right now, and no grasp or interest in what is coming for Cata...
(knawing that it can be totally changed in the next patch)
Right now, ALL tanks always gets more benefits from defense than from resilience, and all tanks always prefere what is tailor made from pve before pvp gear.

Right now the only exceptions are the dk, due to the fact that they are supposed to tank in dps weapons (and balanced around it), which men that weapons with high damage, a lot of stam, a couple of resilience stats (useless at the current level of gear) are really nice (even more for DW tanks when the alternative is agi-based dps weapons....), and the druid (sometimes) due to the higher stam on the pvp weapons.... which become useless at some point in gearing.

The above poster wasn't talking about having a pvp item in ONE slot but saving 2 points and gearing up pvp to reach the crit-immune capand get benefits in other talents. I don't know for you, but since it's a work in progress i don't know how it'll evolve, or how it'll end up, but suggesting gearing up in pvp gear is somewhat interesting and a viable possibility with what we knoww (a thing that your (really not realistic) rant about how it is today isn't remotly close to reach.....

[Foibles]

YEEEPEEE, so because one frigging item in ONE slot was BiS at some point in WotLK it means that it's "normal" and "nothing new" to plan to be full (or nearmy full) pvp gear in cata ??

Yeah, it's what i thought.... :/


Now,i don't know how it will fare or work, but it's normal that some people starts interogating themselves about using the 2pts talent for crit immunity OR using some/a lot of pvp gear to reach that.
If you don't, it means you have no understanding of any tank class right now, and no grasp or interest in what is coming for Cata...
(knawing that it can be totally changed in the next patch)
Right now, ALL tanks always gets more benefits from defense than from resilience, and all tanks always prefere what is tailor made from pve before pvp gear.

Right now the only exceptions are the dk, due to the fact that they are supposed to tank in dps weapons (and balanced around it), which men that weapons with high damage, a lot of stam, a couple of resilience stats (useless at the current level of gear) are really nice (even more for DW tanks when the alternative is agi-based dps weapons....), and the druid (sometimes) due to the higher stam on the pvp weapons.... which become useless at some point in gearing.

The above poster wasn't talking about having a pvp item in ONE slot but saving 2 points and gearing up pvp to reach the crit-immune capand get benefits in other talents. I don't know for you, but since it's a work in progress i don't know how it'll evolve, or how it'll end up, but suggesting gearing up in pvp gear is somewhat interesting and a viable possibility with what we knoww (a thing that your (really not realistic) rant about how it is today isn't remotly close to reach.....

There are more pieces that could easily be BiS. And there is parry/dodge on Cata tank gear. Avoidance will be more useful for saving healers mana as well.

Druids have always been able to make large use out of pvp gear while tanking.

[Aldurok]

There are more pieces that could easily be BiS. And there is parry/dodge on Cata tank gear. Avoidance will be more useful for saving healers mana as well.
Druids have always been able to make large use out of pvp gear while tanking.

Avoidance will definitely be more useful in Cata than it is now. Instead of being almost worthless to try for, you might actually on occasion be happy to see some on your gear!

Not exactly a rounding endorsement.

Besides, pvp plate will still have +str on it (I'd assume, at least), so that's some parry for us.

And I really think that Blizz is trying to keep DK's and Druids as the EH tanks, with the other 2 tanks focusing a little bit more on avoidance/block than we do. Having DS heal for a % of our health per disease means more health = more self heals = more shields.

So, while avoidance gear will definitely be nice, pvp gear might be quite useful for DK tanks. For Druids still, as well.

I actually hope they make the change that resilience only affects damage from another player to help avoid this. I don't pvp. Just look up my armory. Only DK with my name. 788 Honorable Kills total, and I've played that DK since LK release on a pvp server.

While it does make for an interesting choice, I really don't like having to pvp to get my best gear for pve.

[Triangle]

Quote from blizzard.

Resilience - This will only affect damage done by players and critical damage done by players. It will not impact crit chance, mana drains, or other such effects.

Can't link yet =/