Talent changes - Discuss (was poor title)

[Deleted]

TL;DR - I do not think Blizzard hates shamans. I do however see a lot of problems with the current implementation of the talent trees.

Looking over the talent changes for shamans makes me depressed. I was intrigued when blizzard announced that they were gonna remove boring talents and make 31 point trees where everyone would get the dps/healing talents they needed and then have quite a bit of choice when it came to utility talents.
However when looking at the actual trees they've put out my optimism disappeared pretty fast. This is obviously further enhanced by the fact that blizzard apparantly looks at the shaman trees as pretty much done with only minor changes needed.

Looking at the elemental tree I was firstly surprised at how little it had actually changed. Its pretty much all the same talents with less points in them for the same effect, but without new and interesting utility talents. Flameshock now resetting LvB's cooldown is interesting, but that is literally the only new thing in the tree besides earthquake, and there is still only 2 activatable abilities in the tree.
If you try and make a viable spec you will also end up realizing that there after taking the required talents (and 3 filler points in improved shields), you have 2 points left. Thats not really what I call choice.

It doesn't get much better if you jump over to enhancement. Here the change is very minor as well. Only new thing is the dot mechanic from searing totem, that probably will end up being useless in fights with more than one target, when searing totem decides its time to attack something it shouldn't be attacking. Here there is also literally one spec with no free points. No choice, no nothing.

At last we reach the Resto tree, which is my home tree as it were. At first glance things does not look good, as we're losing no less than 10%! crit from our healing spells (thundering strikes, tidal mastery). Blizzard has also decided to go against their own philosophy and remove the interesting activatable cooldown that was tidal force, yet have decided to keep the most useless talent in all of wow (totemic focus) and even keep it as a 3 point talent.
Will is this talent still here? Blizzards philosophy was to remove boring talents and this talent is about as boring as it gets. We use our totems once or twice per fight, so why would we EVER want to spend 3 points on reducing that minor mana cost by 30%?
In return for these rather pointless changes we get 2 new talents that rewards us for doing damage. If we shock a boss our next heal costs less mana and heals for more and if we spam LB's we get mana back. Now dont get me wrong, I like these new mechanics (Focused insight + healing rain seems like a very potent combo, especially considering rains huge mana cost), but the way they're implemented is pretty horrible.
The main reason for this is hit. Without any hit there is nearly 1/5 chance of our shocks or LB's doing absolutely nothing but waste mana, effectively making the mechanic useless without hit. We will obviously not get (or want) +hit on our healing gear, so the only way to get it is to spec into resto for elemental precision.
This however locks us out of the enhancement tree where we need improved shiels and ancestral swiftness, basically having us trade mana effeciency (water shield), healing effeciency(earth shield) and mobility for mana effeciency through damage.
This was definately not the kind of choices I wanted either.
Oh, and spirit link is getting scrapped again, and we still dont have a tanksaving cooldown. Shaman healers are looking to be the worst and least unique of the 4 healing classes so far.


In conclusion I think blizzard has completely dropped the ball when it comes to shamans, and it would seem like they dont even realize it themselves. There is a lot of places where shamans needed fixing, but instead of focusing on them they decided to ignore shamans completely and basically changing nothing while they decided to give the class that needs the least amount of help a completely new mechanic (holy power) and lots of new and interesting talents.

[Karnige]

im going to steal this from another thread...

it's just beta

[Deleted]

im going to steal this from another thread...

it's just beta

Indeed, and I'm still hoping they will fix the trees. However they have implied that shamans were pretty much done, so my hopes isn't that high.

[Aurockh]

why does itchy hate scratchy? why is the sky blue? why ask silly questions when the world has more pressing matter?

[TheOne]

The plural for shaman is shaman.

[Deleted]

why does itchy hate scratchy? why is the sky blue? why ask silly questions when the world has more pressing matter?

The plural for shaman is shaman.

Aww...tiny trolls! So cute!

[Karnige]

just wait and see. they got good structure.

[otinar]

The plural for shaman is shaman.

And that just made your day better right?

OT: I'm 100% with the OP, Shaman talents are pretty dull to say the least. Just hope they change in time for live.

[Szyrex]

Looking over the talent changes for shamans makes me depressed.

Wow.. If that makes you depressed then perhaps you should... Seek help?

[Erudus]

<Moderator edit: Massive quote of entire OP deleted. Hint if you aren't actually responding to a specific point there is no need to quote.>

pointless YouTube link deleted

The old guy is you.

p.s its a beta, things will change by release, so many threads about "blizz hates this class, blizz took this away from us, blah blah fucking blah". Seriously stop whining until cataclysm is released

[Deleted]

The old guy is you.

p.s its a beta, things will change by release, so many threads about "blizz hates this class, blizz took this away from us, blah blah fucking blah". Seriously stop whining until cataclysm is released

Actually now is the right time to whine. The beta is when changes gets made based on feedback. If we wait untill cata to start whining we're probably not going to get fixed.

[Erudus]

Actually now is the right time to whine. The beta is when changes gets made based on feedback. If we wait untill cata to start whining we're probably not going to get fixed.

And you think whining on a fan site is going to get noticed?

If you want to whine do it in-game using the beta feedback tool, stop posting pointless whine threads about it on here!

[Smoopie]

The thing about healing is...

you are part of a team

[Rogue_Medivh]

im going to steal this from another thread...

it's just beta

Yes, it is just beta, but its beta for a reason, because they want players feed backs, if we dont say what we think then all this stupid stuff will get implemented, and if your okay with a retarded game then by all means be quiet.

Note: you should aslo be posting this on official forums if you want anything to change.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't really classify my post as whining to be honest. Slightly perhaps, but I believe I bring up some points that needs adressing. Instead of going "LOL U WHINE IT BETA" It would probably be more constructive if you came with some arguments as to why I'm wrong.

Yes, it is just beta, but its beta for a reason, because they want players feed backs, if we dont say what we think then all this stupid stuff will get implemented, and if your okay with a retarded game then by all means be quiet.

Note: you should aslo be posting this on official forums if you want anything to change.

I probably should yea.

[Deleted]

Healing Rain - 46% of base mana.

Now there's a spell that'll never see an action bar.

[Daez]

Indeed, and I'm still hoping they will fix the trees. However they have implied that shamans were pretty much done, so my hopes isn't that high.

Where do you get this implication from? Blizzard has stated many times that all classes still need more work. They aren't pretty much done until the week before 4.0.

[Djolisimo]

You don't want to find out why Blizzard hate shamans, for that to happen there would
need to exist an established fact that Blizzard hates shamans, which ofc it doesn't.
You decided that the source of all your problems is that some mystical force (in this case Blizzard)
hates you and it prevents you from doing good, so you came here seeking validation
for your claims, in order to find excuses.
To conclude, Yes, Blizzard hates shamans, do you feel better now?

[Pahonek]

Just to clarify because it annoys me, the plural form of "shaman" is "shamans," and just because it ends in "man" doesn't mean it functions like "gentlemen."

[Vashta]

Healing Rain - 46% of base mana.

Now there's a spell that'll never see an action bar.

Why? Thats equal to about 2 chain heals.