Frostbite

[Abandon]

I was wondering how people feel about the removal of Frostbite from the Frost tree?

Considering they have added ways to freeze the target more reliably, Cone of Cold being talented to have a 100% chance to Freeze, and the Water Elemental's Freeze spell proccing Fingers of Frost (again, talented), do you consider this a good or a bad change?

[Deleted]

I was wondering how people feel about the removal of Frostbite from the Frost tree?

Considering they have added ways to freeze the target more reliably, Cone of Cold being talented to have a 100% chance to Freeze, and the Water Elemental's Freeze spell proccing Fingers of Frost (again, talented), do you consider this a good or a bad change?

less rng = always good.

[Orinoco]

Good change in my opinion, as said before it is less RNG and more about the skill of the mage.

[Swizzle]

i'm just trying to figure out the "pet freeze procs FoF" talent. it's entirely useless in PvE and seems a bit redundant in PvP since the target is already frozen.

[Eleventyten]

Well for PvP, which is the only way I see it being useful, you might have someone trinket the original freeze effect, leaving you with 2 charges of FoF you wouldn't normally have so you can Icelance them or whatever.

[Orinoco]

Bit pointless really because landing a crit on a target that is pet frozen will use up one charge of FoF as well as the freeze effect leaving you with only half the effective talent. As far as using it for someone who trinkets a freeze... bit too situational for 2 talent points, badly thought through in my opinion.

I disagree that taking frostbite away was a massive nerf, maybe a small one but I would think the play style will be more flowing now because there will be less reacting to various procs and more controlling the fights. Still like the changes to frost overall.

[ihsanm]

or you could freeze one player and then use the FoF proc to focus on another. Its really adds some significant capabilities to frost pvp.

Also - all healers will now have defensive dispel magic and there are a fair bit of 'get our of snare' abilities out there so its much more useful than for countering a trinket every 2 mins.

[Freshouttajail]

gives you the oportunity to use pet freeze as a defensive tool or a trinket poper when needed and a buff that you can use a bit later instead of being forced of using freeze for a burst only option.
or a quad FoF combo if you use it right after getting a normal FoF.

[Abandon]

i'm just trying to figure out the "pet freeze procs FoF" talent. it's entirely useless in PvE and seems a bit redundant in PvP since the target is already frozen.

In PVE it gaurantees a Fingers of Frost proc so you can use Deep Freeze as soon as it comes off cooldown, instead of waiting until it is off cooldown AND Fingers of Frost procs.

In PVP, you can use it to, for example, freeze one target to keep them away from you and use Deep Freeze on another target. Or if you are focusing on a single target, they can't do a well-timed trinket to break Frost Nova and avoid Deep Freeze or most of the sting from a Shatter combo.

[Orinoco]

I still think the fact that you can negate half of the charges of a talent (which will happen in PvP encounters, focusing targets etc) make it pretty damned weak. Be good if FoF charges were made to not be consumed when used on a frozen target, especially now that frostbite has been removed.

Still, lots more iterations to go through, Beta and all that .

[Valdorick]

It seems sad to lose Frost Bite, which is, in my opinion, as iconic to being a Frost Mage as Ignite is to a Fire mage (They freeze things, they cause Frost Bite!), and Improved Freeze - whose name nor function is not final I'm sure - really does seem rather... um, situational? Yes, there are ways to use it, and since Rated BGs are maybe possibly going to be put in, there are many functions for this in a PvP environment.

But still, Imp Cone Of Cold replacing Frost Bite seems a tad odd... It's reliable... yes... but it's a Cone, it still requires you to be in Melee range to use, and Frost Nova/Shatter Barrier fill that niche rather nicely, no? Yes, Cone of Cold is a shorter cooldown, but it's still freezing anyone dumb enough to stand in front of a caster.

Really, I'd rather see the talent linked to Fingers of Frost be Frost Bite, but as an active ability that consumes a Charge of Fingers of Frost, with a short cooldown somewhere in the range of 10 seconds or so to control a battle from the back lines, like we're supposed to. The argument I can see to this is that Frost Mages already control battles with Polymorph and the very fact they slow targets (now up to 3) with their main nuke. Not to mention that the water elemental can also root en-mass... oh, and Deepfreeze... Ironically, I think I just kicked my line of reasoning in the ass... Still, it would be nice to see Frost Bite in the game in some way.

[Goliethlol]

i'm just trying to figure out the "pet freeze procs FoF" talent. it's entirely useless in PvE and seems a bit redundant in PvP since the target is already frozen.

You're making the assumption that your using your Finger of Frost procs on the target you are freezing, which wont always be the case. In fact, it will probably be the less likely scenario.

Consider a warrior / druid vs priest / mage 2v2. You're attempting to burst down the warrior while your priest fears the druid, however you wont quite be able to kill the warrior within the fear. Currently on live, I'd use my pet nova on the druid into a Deep Freeze. With Imp Freeze, you can nova the warrior, and use the guarenteed Finger's of Frost proc on the Druid, giving you an extra shatter you wouldn't normally get.

Or, in 3s vs TSG. You make a hardswap to the paladin, and instead of using the nova into Deep Freeze on the paladin, you can nova the warrior, dk, or both instead (to prevent them from disrupting the swap to the paladin) and still be able to Deep Freeze and continue DPSing the paladin.

The PVP usage seems situational, sure, but it also seems extremely valuable in those situations, and gives you a lot more options.

Bit pointless really because landing a crit on a target that is pet frozen will use up one charge of FoF as well as the freeze effect leaving you with only half the effective talent

They changed Fingers of Frost from what it currently is on live, so this statement is false.

Fingers of Frost Rank 3
Gives your Chill effects a 15% chance to grant you the Fingers of Frost effect, which causes Ice Lance and Deep Freeze to act as if your target were frozen. Fingers of Frost has 2 charges and lasts 15 sec.

Only Deep Freeze and Ice Lance will consume Fingers of Frost charges. They also changed how Ice Lance works, if you haven't been keeping up on the changes.

If you compare Cata damage on Ice Lance to current Live damage, then in cataclysm, Ice Lance will always do 2x damage, regardless of being frozen or not, and it will do 3x damage vs frozen targets.

[nabla2]

As a mage, I would say that trading rng frostbite for reliable frostbite is a great change for everyone.

---------- Post added 2010-07-23 at 08:10 PM ----------

But still, Imp Cone Of Cold replacing Frost Bite seems a tad odd... It's reliable... yes... but it's a Cone, it still requires you to be in Melee range to use, and Frost Nova/Shatter Barrier fill that niche rather nicely, no? Yes, Cone of Cold is a shorter cooldown, but it's still freezing anyone dumb enough to stand in front of a caster.

This really doesnt make any sense at all. If you were able to frostbite someone it's because he was hitting you in melee range.

[WoOmbat]

This really doesnt make any sense at all. If you were able to frostbite someone it's because he was hitting you in melee range.

As it procs from all your spells with an chill effect FB / Blizz /FFB do range proc it.

[Orinoco]

Y
They changed Fingers of Frost from what it currently is on live, so this statement is false.

Fingers of Frost Rank 3
Gives your Chill effects a 15% chance to grant you the Fingers of Frost effect, which causes Ice Lance and Deep Freeze to act as if your target were frozen. Fingers of Frost has 2 charges and lasts 15 sec.

Only Deep Freeze and Ice Lance will consume Fingers of Frost charges. They also changed how Ice Lance works, if you haven't been keeping up on the changes.

If you compare Cata damage on Ice Lance to current Live damage, then in cataclysm, Ice Lance will always do 2x damage, regardless of being frozen or not, and it will do 3x damage vs frozen targets.

You sure about that Ice Lance change to always doing x2 damage? Latest Beta talent list still has Ice Lance doing x2 damage on frozen targets only. You're right about the change to just those two spells that are affected by the talent, however, you could still potentially waste a charge if you used one of those spells immediately after Freeze, though that seems unlikely. Think this talent is making more sense now, didn't notice the change to the spells affected by FoF.

[Goliethlol]

Actually, you're correct. Ice Lance only gains a bonus to it's damage when Fingers of Frost is up. I suppose that gives even more importance to Imp Freeze.

[Swizzle]

with the current design of the water elemental (one that has not changed so far and may not change later on), you can't have it out all the time and still have it cast freeze. this means that the talent is inapplicable to PvE. could change, but i doubt it because a perma-pet that can cast freeze is quite OP.

[Goliethlol]

with the current design of the water elemental (one that has not changed so far and may not change later on), you can't have it out all the time and still have it cast freeze. this means that the talent is inapplicable to PvE. could change, but i doubt it because a perma-pet that can cast freeze is quite OP.

Actually, Water Elementals can not only be permanent and also have Freeze, but they are permanent by default, on the current beta build.

Also, if this does stay, I would expect there to also be resil / stam scaling for the Elemental, which again, really increases the effectiveness of Imp Freeze.

[Swizzle]

Actually, Water Elementals can not only be permanent and also have Freeze, but they are permanent by default, on the current beta build.

Also, if this does stay, I would expect there to also be resil / stam scaling for the Elemental, which again, really increases the effectiveness of Imp Freeze.

so fire is affliction, frost is demo, and arcane is destro. awesome. still, the amount of bitching that will arise out of the spam snares will be unheard of.

[Goliethlol]

so fire is affliction, frost is demo, and arcane is destro. awesome. still, the amount of bitching that will arise out of the spam snares will be unheard of.

* Deep Freeze - Is now a primary skill.
* Solidification *NEW* - You transform your body into solid ice for 30 sec. This form increases your armor by 600%, damage by 20%, reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by 6% and reduces the duration of stun and snare effects by 50%. You gain some unique frost abilities in addition to your normal abilities. 3 minute cooldown. (Replaces Deep Freeze as 31pt Frost talent)


Lawl I wish (actually, not really)