mage fire is now based on dots?

[dr2022]

So for what i have seen in the talent trees
fire is no longer based on crit it`s based on dots
for example they changed the fire power talent into dot damage increase
pyromaniac is based on dots to be active
critcal mass is no longer crit but now it`s a damage increase based on dot damage

does anyone agree that the mage fire class is now based on dots and do you think it`s a good change or not?( aimed to the beta testers )
for me i`ll just have to wait and test it in beta

[Chaoslux]

1- We arent "based on crit" because they want Haste, Crit and Mastery to have mostly the same value for us. and not just "I dont get it because i need MOAR CRIT"

2- As much as we are getting more dots on the target, we are still more of a direct damage spec than Affliction for example. Afflic casts instants spells that gives a dot and nothing else. Fire mages are just casting their normal arsenal: Fireball, Scorch, Pyroblast, Living Bomb, and possibly Fire Blast and Flame Orb. The difference is that Blizzard is making all of our spells applies DoTs to it.

3- Think about it, its Fire spells. They burn, and burning isnt something that happens in a second, it takes time and continue burning. Take something inflamable and throw some flame at it, Yes, there will be some kind of explosion or big flame at first, but it wont suddenly disappear, it'll remains and slowly die down after some time. Direct Damage Spells with DoT component.

[Orinoco]

Though the amount of damage we deal through dots will increase the way we get those dots is still, largely, from direct damage spells so it won't change the play style much. Good change in my opinion.

[Baygon]

to be honest i think some of our direct damage spells such as fireball and Pyroblast probably need splash damage as well.

[flamejackal]

You don't want it to have an AOE component because then they have to lower the coefficient for balance.

[Mixelphlick]

I personally am kinda liking the new fire dot style. What im reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally kinda pumped about and wondering more about specifics are how the fire mastery will be implemented (ie. will each spell put up a dot of its own ala fireball dot or will they all contribute to a "new fire dot" like rolling ignites but a little weaker) and 2 how is the new combustion going to work exactly. The possiblities between the two working together in the best way make me joygasm a little bit.

I really love that they are giving combustion its balls back making it a worthwhile visceral cooldown although with the reduced crit values i think it already might have been. I'm a little worried about the hotstreak change though im hoping that it works out better with the lower crit values we can expect to have than the old implementation and that blizzard didnt just make it waaaaay harder to trigger.

[Taalyn]

Problem is our spells already apply DoTs. Assuming not Glyph of Fireball, Fireball has a DoT, Pyroblast has a DoT, and Living Bomb IS a DoT. Only Scorch doesn't apply a DoT unless it crits. I guess there is also Fire Blast, so perhaps we will use that spell more than just while on the move, even if it is just for an extra DoT to boost Combustion damage.

Pyromaniac along with the 1 point you can put into Improved Flamestrike will solidfy Flamestrike as the fire mage's AoE spell. I'll assume the "Pyromania" effect mentioned in Improved Flamestrike is the haste buff gained from the effect of the Pyromaniac talent. Living Bomb x3, hasted Flamestrike spam = win.

I'll assume Combustion works like this:

You cast Scorch for the debuff and the target is now affected by ScorchDOT
You cast Living Bomb
You cast Fire Blast and the target is now affected by FireBlastDOT
You pop Combustion
You cast Fireball and it crits. The target is now affected by FireballDOT and Ignite
ScorchDOT + FireBlastDOT + Ignite + FireballDOT = CombustionDOT

Assuming all but Ignite deal damage every 2 seconds for 8 seconds, CombustionDOT will burn every 2 seconds for 10 seconds, so we gain an extra tick on 3 DoTs and 3 extra ticks from Ignite.

What I don't understand is how Living Bomb will work. Living Bomb lasts for 12 seconds. If CombustionDOT burns at the same rate but for only 10 sec, then we will lose a tick of Living Bomb and it wont explode since 12 seconds has not passed and it was not dispelled.

What could be interesting is if you dispel CombustionDOT then the whole DoT explodes for uber damage >.>

[Mixelphlick]

I was thinking more along the lines of its use part way through as where it really shines, assuming that flashfire works like ignite but weak,
you have a slightly rolled flashfire, a fireball dot, a pyro dot hopefully, living bomb and a rolled up ignite on the target.
you cast combustion
you cast fireball and it crits rolling the ignite higher, all your dots dissappear and are merged into one dot that now stretches a previously 4 second 2 tick ignite into a 10 second 5 tick rolled ignite along with a rolled flashfire a fireball dot a pyro dot and a living bomb all ticking as one powerhouse and to top it all off you can stack those dots right back up after. with combustion counting as a dot if you hit living bomb first with a fireball or pyro following depending on your crit situation you wont even lose much if any damage from your slight lull in 3 fire dots on the boss. That combustion dot will tick like mad especially if you used your trinkets (if possible) before hand and made the flashfire/ignite rolls even stronger. could make for some interesting play and i really like that facet. I agree though there will have to be something about living bomb that makes it worthwhile otherwise the damage gained by having the extra long ignite/flashfire and other dots would need to make up for it.

As far as aoe i say the hasted flamestrikes as being a proc and flame orb being the core but i think it will all come down to base damage and mana levels/efficiency if hasted flamestrike spam burns mana too fast or because its dot essentially gets wasted when spammed its damage is lower than flame orb it may work out the way i was theorizing but with the state of imp flamestrike being just haste instead of instacast like it used to be it looks like you might be right but then whats the use of flame orb? why would they give us a new fire spell and design so it doesnt get used.

[Taalyn]

I know you'd pop Combustion later into the fight, I was just giving an example.

Flame Orb only hits one target and I'm not sure what the tooltip means by 1.5 sec cast / Channeled. If it has a 1.5 sec cast, and then you channel to hold the effect, you are channeling a spell for 15 seconds. I find that incredibly stupid and hope I'm not reading the description right.

[Mixelphlick]

No no i think you misunderstand the spell. Or i do, as i understand it think of the flame orb that the boss in old kingdom or the pats in sarth cast. Its going to be a slow moving ball of aoe damage that flys in a straight line forward from your character making positioning a factor and ther was at one point a talent that blew it up at the end but i think that went by the wayside. Thats why i see it as a pvp cast and the channel near as i can tell is its duration once you fire it. GC mentioned it was going to be fire and forget the channel isnt your char channeling.

Edit* ah i see what your saying its currently closest enemy target as in one at a time. Hmm im hoping thats either not intentional or they change it because otherwise its going to be pretty mediocre it doesnt have enough punch to be worth it single target and if it only affects the closest target at a time its going to be weak in aoe too.

[Orinoco]

It affects any number of targets in range and does a set amount of damage per target, the set amount doesn't decrease if the number of targets increases. It travels at the same speed as fireball until it find a target at which points it moves at walking pace.

Here is a video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwa2f0RvSnk

[Abandon]

to be honest i think some of our direct damage spells such as fireball and Pyroblast probably need splash damage as well.

They really don't. They specifically had problems with things like Cleaves in thsi regard, since you are doing the same thing as you would do for single-target damage but just getting extra free damage when there is adds with no skill or change in playstyle needed at all. Unless you would be willing to do lower direct damage than the other casters in exchange for getting free extra damage when there are adds?

[Orinoco]

Splash damage can jog on.

[Mixelphlick]

agreed on not having splash damage so if flame orb works like i think i would wager it will be a pretty crucial part of aoe dps im just curious how its going to thread in with what we already have