Wotlk Raiding Mentality and why it blows

[Lifesbane]

The problem is that the content is tuned for pugs. You shouldn't be able to pug the later tier raids at all. That's why you get the gearscore whine, that's why you get the ninjas, that's why you get too easy normal modes but cockblocking hardmodes, that's why you get gear inflation, that's why you get people in full 245+ who have no real clue about the game, etc, etc , etc

Quoted for absolute 100% truth.

[Cruelmalice]

The amount of hard bosses didn't change. And yet, did you see something along the lines of "lfm swp, aiming for muru, come a'dal for gearcheck" (Muru being the example because nowadays there are many pugs going for Sindy and sometimes LK)? I didn't play TBC but somehow I can tell that there wasn't anything like that simply because raiding was challenging and more rewarding (and I mean accomplishment-wise inb4 'get a life') back then, as it was in vanilla.

the idea is that they give access to people with lesser versions of the fight,im in the same place as you...11/12 but you can easily pug sind and even LK,you never saw "LFM Muru" but you also don't see "LFM sindy hard"...you don't even seen "Lfm25 ICC HMs" which would be the equivalent of SWP however you did see BT pugs,I actually killed Illidan in a pug the night Wotlk dropped...im guessing this would be the equivalent of ICC normal?

[Deleted]

After reading threads like these, for some reason I'm feeling very happy I left WoW just after Ulduar.

It sounds like the pug-friendly gearing and content tuning has completely decimated the endgame raiding culture. However, if you are part of a good guild already I would imagine you're just watching the storm outside safe in the knowledge you can't be hurt directly. Unfortunately, you'd still get exposed if you geared, or were forced to gear, alts outside of your guild. That said, I've found that the most progressed guilds tend to spend a large amount of time systematically gearing their alts internally for various reasons, the main one being "its the player not the class" and maximum progressive versatility.

Gearscore wasn't around when I played. But I imagine since its just a tool that people are mistaking its usage for its context. Its the context/system that has changed and got things to the ridiculous stage where it seems to be now.

I'd hate to be a new max-level player at this time. Feel sorry for them.

[saintt]

I hate not getting into groups because i dont have the achievement. how can i get the achievement if im never allowed to do it. Then its all about gear score, at least on my server. Looking forward to cata when things are more guild oriented and people dont just pug and gs everything

[HalcyonicPlague]

I hate not getting into groups because i dont have the achievement. how can i get the achievement if im never allowed to do it. Then its all about gear score, at least on my server. Looking forward to cata when things are more guild oriented and people dont just pug and gs everything

Yes, I believe this is a large flaw as well. I've not gotten into groups for similar reasons because I only have the first wing achievements for both 10 and 25, but I know the fights for the other wings more than well enough. The only reason I lack them is because some new guys who need some more time getting used to some of the bosses cause a few wipes and then the raid disbands (talking from a pug stance, my guild does well enough we just have a couple under geared people who also need some training but they're getting there, I expect when I come off of an loa that is coming up we'll be ready for some serious progression).

[Shadwitz]

That said I do feel that this has brought up some interesting points by a wide variety of raiders. What do you feel Cataclysm will change about wrath mentality, if at all?

I'm hoping Cataclysm helps to cut down on the sense of entitlement I see in players in regards to their omg epicz and omg badgez. That goes for the causals as well as the hardcores. Maybe instill a little sense of patience in players, or at least a little respect between the two camps.

I'm doubting it, but it's nice to dream.

[Daladier]

why can't Blizz just make one dungeon that requires skill/CC/competence like naxx/AQ vanilla WoW. Just one. One that can't be pugged and needs working together to complete. Or bring back BC raiding, that was totally awesome.

[iLive]

why can't Blizz just make one dungeon that requires skill/CC/competence like naxx/AQ vanilla WoW. Just one. One that can't be pugged and needs working together to complete. Or bring back BC raiding, that was totally awesome.

Icecrown Citadel 25H without buff.

[jb226]

Maybe you are on a backwater server, but on any decently progressed server you will find trade chat pugs that will down these "hard" bosses...

You say "trade chat pugs" with this obvious snear on your face, like you just avoided spitting.

"Backwater" servers can't pug ICC hard modes, but "any decently progressed" one can. So... you're saying that servers with a high population of players who have already downed the content can down the content? And you say that with some sort of surprise or digust?

Well no shit, Sherlock. Most of these are players who already have the gear, who already know the fights, and who now have the benefit of a 30% buff to cover any mistakes. That's the difference between a "backwater" server and a "decently progressed one."

More to the point, I think the people posting in these threads tend to just be delusional. The reality is that the vast majority of raiders--much less players--still have not even downed 10 LK regular. If you're 11/12 25 HMs and find it all easy (hrm, why aren't you 12/12?) then maybe this isn't the game for you. You're obviously too uber for WOW. That's fine. Don't expect Blizzard to care about you to the exclusion of the millions of other players. That's pure ego.

[Smoopie]

I hate not getting into groups because i dont have the achievement. how can i get the achievement if im never allowed to do it. Then its all about gear score, at least on my server. Looking forward to cata when things are more guild oriented and people dont just pug and gs everything

Do it on monday. I'm sorry but icc has been out for 30+ weeks.. When i get my group together I want to know people know what they are doing.

people ask for high gearscore because everyone has it, not because that is what you need for the instance.[