Death Knights getting stripped down to the boring.

[Deleted]

It's not a nuisance as you so lightly put it, its a killer. They just killed off our secondary Taunt, the one thing that is on a 100% chance to hit now requires you to run away from the mob to actually be used. That's not a nuisance, that's moron design.

[Shiira]

Druids and paladins both have two taunts so I'm not sure where you're going with that comparison.

[Bobptimus Prime]

People think DK's are stupid because they don't fully realize the differences between classes. For example, not all tanks have access to multiple taunt effects in addition to abilities that glued AoE threat to them.

please list the primary and secondary taunts for all four classes ^.^

DK: dark command and death grip
Warrior: Taunt and Mocking blow

druid and paladin? Not sure about paladin but I'm certain Feral Faerie fire isn't a taunt. I'm thinking be grateful that a secondary taunt exists instead of complaining about a hoop being a nuisance.

He says DKs are labelled as stupid because they don't understand other classes, then doesn't know about Pallys having two taunts!
Genius!

---------- Post added 2010-07-24 at 05:36 PM ----------

Druids and paladins both have two taunts so I'm not sure where you're going with that comparison.

Druids are brought to using Challenging Shout/Roar as a backup taunt, on a 3-minute CD. Albeit, Mocking Blow is on a 1 minute CD.

But responding seriously this time... Pallys have it the easiest, if we're talking taunts. 2 taunts, one taunting up to 3 targets, on nothing more then an 8 sec CD.

[Dalavita]

Guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Who'd knew.

[rhod]

Deathknights were OP until patch 3.1.3, where Scourge Strike was nerfed..TO THE GROUND BABY. After that, DK's became a support class in pvp, and played in arenas to assist the other dps a la chains of ice and death grip. To say deathknights were never op is a ridiculous statement, but to say deathknights are still op is ludicrous.

[Exxile87]

I've been playing a Death Knight as my main since WotLK Beta. I love this class. I very seriously doubt there are many people that care about it as much as I do (I shelved my Warrior from Vanilla and my Mage for TBC). I am not in the Cataclysm beta myself, but my brother-in-law is. I am here to tell you firsthand that the changes your pointing out are all for the better. The Death Knight class is still just as fun, if not a bit more so; still as strong; still as challenging, and most importantly, still as unique. I will concede that we do kind of feel like a Warrior at times, but that's true on live currently. All of these naysayers are just bitching to have something to bitch about. I say if you hate the changes, go back to your Rogues and Hunters and stop cluttering up my class with your shit.

[kerwyn]

All I want for cataclysm is a kitty druid style "john fucking madden" rotation.

Don't fuck this up blizz.

[jazx]

I've been playing a Death Knight as my main since WotLK Beta. I love this class. I very seriously doubt there are many people that care about it as much as I do (I shelved my Warrior from Vanilla and my Mage for TBC). I am not in the Cataclysm beta myself, but my brother-in-law is. I am here to tell you firsthand that the changes your pointing out are all for the better. The Death Knight class is still just as fun, if not a bit more so; still as strong; still as challenging, and most importantly, still as unique. I will concede that we do kind of feel like a Warrior at times, but that's true on live currently. All of these naysayers are just bitching to have something to bitch about. I say if you hate the changes, go back to your Rogues and Hunters and stop cluttering up my class with your shit.

^ this, the people that actually enjoy DKs(like myself) have been thru every buff(when heartstrike started hitting two targets), nerf(when frost strike did HALF its original dmg), and horrible changes(the OLD UB change D: ). and those are just SOME of the examples from all 3 specs

ALL of the Cata *CHANGES* are not even compared to some of the ones before(besides the rune change which is obvsly a large change, that i like as well), and imo most of the cata changes are for the better

if your really so concerned about how much dks will suck(mostly about pvp) go roll a warrior, since were SO ALIKE THEM =_=, were you get your very own 5second stun on a 45sec CD

[Albert the fish]

CE was always a waste except as a giggle.i'd personally like to see them retune it and make it a main part of unholy aoe dps but i also haven't tried to balance it from a designer angle before so it may be hopeless without more major rehauls. major rehauls are cool, but one just to work CE in is a waste of time.

RIP fun spell, i understand why you died

our diseases now crit baseline, sure this makes us less unique and maybe WP could have been tuned to simply make diseases crit more, but they wanted to turn away from talent design styles that are that bland. so you come up with an interesting and balanced concept for a new WP. i'll be waiting.

AMS still does what it used to, just it's unholy exclusive now. this makes unholy more separate and interesting from frost and blood, which now have their own paths to play with and makes the class as a whole more interesting while making frost and blood marginally less interesting(and those 2 are getting plenty of cool new shit to make up for that loss)

coi. well coi gets complicated.
first for unholy and blood it does become a little more boring, but stronger and more reliable
second for frost. consider that blizzard is leaning hard on letting us pick up previously 'useless' talents for funsies. talents like chillblains maybe?a frostie with talented chillblains and the new Coi become a major kiter for pve and prolly a bitch in pvp too. your enemy barely moving is cool and it makes frost more unique thus making dks more and not less interesting as a whole.

DG changes.well it kinda sucks.that being said. you use it for limited points in pve and you use it in pvp.
in pve only tanks and in some rare instances(think malygos fight mechanics) dps dks will use it. the tank will use it on casters and will use it if someone is being attacked and DC is on cooldown. dkdps use it to move a target into a killing zone. if a target is 8feet away he's already IN the killing zone and dk dps have no use for it.
if a tank is casting DG on a caster that's 8 feet away instead of just hitting him or strangulating him or DC him then the tank is wasting his resources by putting a cooldown on an ability that didn't need to be used. if hes within 8 feet of a target and it's left his threat and he already popped DC then he's apparently not doing his job correctly. especially when we consider that CC is making a comeback in Cata meaning most random inc mobs will be CCed by the intelligent people until the tank or offtank can address it. we won't be trying to keep 8 mobs stuck to us at once.

since the taunt mechanic doesn't effect anyone in pvp we're left with a movement spell and an interrupt. if you need to move someone that's within 8 feet you're just lazy. if you can't find the mind freeze button than you suck.

if you used mind freeze to lock out one school and your opponent changes to another school his dps isn't going to be as good usually and...well shut the hell up you don't get a button to counter every conceivable situation. we have enough tools.

and for the grand finale. it's beta, shut up, sit down. if you are going to bitch and moan at least make an attempt to suggest fixes for the issues you believe are there. otherwise you're wasting my time,your time and blizzard's time.

[AetherMcLoud]

People think DK's are stupid because they don't fully realize the differences between classes. For example, not all tanks have access to multiple taunt effects in addition to abilities that glued AoE threat to them.

please list the primary and secondary taunts for all four classes ^.^

DK: dark command and death grip
Warrior: Taunt and Mocking blow

druid and paladin? Not sure about paladin but I'm certain Feral Faerie fire isn't a taunt. I'm thinking be grateful that a secondary taunt exists instead of complaining about a hoop being a nuisance.

DK: Dark Command, Death Grip (not a real taunt only a mocking blow btw)
Warrior: Taunt, Mocking Blow, AOE Taunt
Paladin: Hand of Whatever, their singletarget taunt, and Hand of somethingelse, a taunt that taunts 3 enemies attacking target partymember
Druid: Taunt, AOE taunt

[Deleted]

Excuse me? DG is not a real Taunt? 100% chance to Hit and 3 seconds of "Forces the Target to Attack You" isn't a real Taunt? Then what is? Fail Command that keeps missing when you really need it and forces you to spend a major Glyph Slot on it? Riiiiight. Try another day.

Although mobs may be Immune to the "Snare" portion of Death Grip only Taunt-Immune Mobs will be Immune to it's Taunt portion which does not Miss.

It's only downside is that you need to be facing the Target to use it, unlike Dark Command.

[Dalavita]

I can't believe that people still don't know that death grip is an actual taunt, that puts you on the top of the threat meter, and gives you aggro, this far into the expansion.

What's worse, these clueless people are actually posting in threads.

Also, my dark command taunt missed on Saurfang, let me just waste precious time, run back 8 yards, death grip taunt it, make saurfang run forward and screw the other tank, healers and melees up positioning-wise.

I suspect the 8 yard min thing is a bug either way.

[Deleted]

The 6% Hit on Virulence really helps us now too though, I've noticed a large decrease in Icy Touch misses on Beta with 3/3 Virulence, haven't had to Taunt much so Dark Command is still /shrug but I'm guessing those misses have gone down too.

I also hope the 8 Yard Range thing is a bug too, last time it happened by adding Icy Slam I think so it probably happened again by removing it.

[Whitcher]

i made a dk during patch 3.2

Then you're clueless about DKs from wrath release till almost TOC.

[Albert the fish]

I can't believe that people still don't know that death grip is an actual taunt, that puts you on the top of the threat meter, and gives you aggro, this far into the expansion.

What's worse, these clueless people are actually posting in threads.

Also, my dark command taunt missed on Saurfang, let me just waste precious time, run back 8 yards, death grip taunt it, make saurfang run forward and screw the other tank, healers and melees up positioning-wise.

I suspect the 8 yard min thing is a bug either way.

well because it doesn't.
Death Grip forces the target to attack only you for a certain time period(3seconds) if you were to DG amob and than do absolutely nothing else to it somehow it'd peel off you after those 3 seconds were over. the thing is nobody does that. they DG and than start hammering the living bejeesus out of it, building solid threat over those 3 seconds which thereby ensures that they don't fall off afterwards. death grip never interacts with the threat table, it circumvents it with a similar effect.

not surprisingly this attack follows the rules for taunts since it is similar in nature, so most attacks that are taunt immune are also immune to DG's forced attack effect.

[Shiira]

What? Death grip is a standard taunt. It's very easy to prove with a threat meter.

[Kpoof]

I have never EVER trained Corpse Explosion rank 2, it's still red in my spellbook, haven't even put a point there. EVER. Most useless f*cking thing in the game.

[Foibles]

well because it doesn't.
Death Grip forces the target to attack only you for a certain time period(3seconds) if you were to DG amob and than do absolutely nothing else to it somehow it'd peel off you after those 3 seconds were over. the thing is nobody does that. they DG and than start hammering the living bejeesus out of it, building solid threat over those 3 seconds which thereby ensures that they don't fall off afterwards. death grip never interacts with the threat table, it circumvents it with a similar effect.

not surprisingly this attack follows the rules for taunts since it is similar in nature, so most attacks that are taunt immune are also immune to DG's forced attack effect.

Of course they are immune to the forced focus, because they are taunt immune. Taunt is the same as DG except for the pull effect.


The 8yard thing is probably not going to last. It popped up a few months ago and was removed fairly quickly.

[Zao]

DG is a Taunt. QED

There's a very simple test to verfiy this.
Get your permanghoul out. Set it to passive and let it attack a random mob down to 50%. Then call it back and DG the target. The target will stick to you, without attacking it.

[Deleted]

There are two parts to Death Grip

The Grip Portion and the Taunt Portion.

The Grip Portion - All Bosses etc are Immune to the Grip Portion, this is the "Flying Mob" thing you see a lot with Non-Elite Mobs and some (but few) Elite Mobs, and of course Trash.

The Taunt Portion - This is the standard Taunt, forces the Target to attack you for 3 seconds. What's different between this Taunt and any other Taunt? Well, this Taunt isn't on a Hit Table, it's on a 100% Chance to Hit the Target even if you have 0% Hit.

The Immune Messages - You get these when the Target is Immune to the Grip Portion. When you get a Message that you failed to Taunt then the Target is also Immune to Taunts, think TBC Bosses or Deathwhisper Heroic.