Talent Tree Design, Blue Posts

[Azie]

"I hate to go all forum moderator on you guys, but we've seen a recent downward spiral in the quality of some of these threads and posts here on the beta forum."

Maybe they should start giving beta keys to experienced / devoted players who are willing to provide feedback / discusson on forums instead of throwing them to random clueless players?
Also it would be really really appreciated to let continuous subscribers have beta acces as a "reward"...
Some of my guildies playing on beta realms and its ridicilous what they say on VT what kind of players they meet...
They really should give beta option to those with certain ach. points / number of 80s / played time / money owned etc etc. Not to those who hit 80 in 30 days played during 2 months of subscription.

Guess you got my point.

[Immamoonkin]

About time someone told the beta kids to get over themselves. Tigole did that in Wrath last year, and he wasn't as nice about it as Ghostcrawler is being. I watched him just BAN people just for trying to argue a point with him.

[Yuno]

Really hope he just bans everyone and call more people for the beta.




Yes, I don't have beta =/

[Raqubor]

Am i the only one who's being sick of all this Paladin stuff?
The whole freakin expansion was about paladins, and now it seems the next one will be about them again...

[Lightfist]

Protret = ridiculous overpowered facerollfest.

Protret =/= Prot PVP.

[Eversor]

Am i the only one who's being sick of all this Paladin stuff?
The whole freakin expansion was about paladins, and now it seems the next one will be about them again...

Quit your sniveling. Your precious class will also get some love. Paladins are simply in the daily work order for Blizz right now. There are still tons of work required for each and every class, so instead of being so dramatic, be patient.

Of course, why am I even bothering explaining the obvious...

[Ninbyo]

I kinda do hope they start kicking the folks that do nothing but QQ and goof off in the beta. The game might be for the better with some people that actually test. When I got in the Wrath beta, I would always send feedback with the in-game tool if I ran into problems, or if I particularly liked the quest. That's really the least you can do as a beta tester imo.

[Buzzinjoe]

Easy fix to all this dumbass QQ.

Pick the top 2 guilds from every server and give them beta invites. Since the servers range from mediocre to world class you'll have a good mix of players in there. Good and bad will be covered.

And the top guilds will all provide much more valuable feedback than any random invitee, since they know their class better than 90% of the population out there and have an easier job adapting to new skills.

Screw random invites. They worked for vanilla beta when the game was new. Now you want people that know the game.

Most of the videos I've seen on youtube about the beta make me cringe. 90% of the players in the beta have not a single clue about what they're doing and how to play the class. Most of them use premades of classes they've never played. What's the point? Do that on the PTR where people more qualified to give feedback will take care of it. In the Beta you're expected to play classes you're familiar with.

TL;DR Random invites are a mistake at this point and premades on the Beta servers are an even bigger mistake.

[Alraml]

Is "Thank you for participating in the Cataclysm beta" the gtfo line?

It sounds so deceptively friendly

Good on Blizzard, the threads aren't constructive criticism, just endless whining

[Ebonbane]

The slow is not good if you are in a heroic you are appropriately geared for. If you tank the mobs where they stand, not to mention CC will be in affect, you will have to separate mobs pull them into cleared territory, cause a pat aggro could possibly mean you wipe. Also, you may need to puill mobs to you to separate them for cc so they don't get broken by splash damage, this is an old tactic used back in vanilla wow.

The slow was intended to give the group time to get CC in place before the mobs got so close that Concecrate would break the CC. They will either have to stop Concecrate from breakin CC or they will have to reimplement the daze effect. The change itself was made to make Prot\Ret less attractive since the control factor was one of the main reasons to do it. This goes for the attempt at less damage more threat.

[Deleted]

You lost a lot of passive Strength and damage in the talent trees and we haven't baked all of that back in yet. (Source)

I never really understood why pala keeps lacking AP scale with armor like the other plates.

[Deleted]

I play a prot paladin as my main and i have been since tbc, i just hope that whatever changes CG has in store for us pallies wont make me appreciate my class less. I dont mind complexity to a certain level that is. But if i have no time to do anything else but to constantly keep playing the chase the button game to maintain aggro.. what fun will that be?

Oh well, i'm going to be open minded about this whole change as I am one of those pallies out there who is tired of the 3 button win strategy of today. And the nerf of AD was kinda expected.. it's too win as it stands today. too bad though i mean, i kind of like the feeling of being win, lol

[Ganimah]

So why is it that 1) Blizz still can't balance classes after five years 2) They claim to understand the classes better with each go around and yet make more and more silly decisions only to have to reverse them and do all kinds of stupid stuff leaving a very confused picture. 3) Didn't we see this with Shaman for Vanilla and BC? It just seems like they have no clear focus as to what to do with any hybrid character.

Honestly, I think they've lost their mojo. They lost a lot of their developers to not only Starcraft II, but Diablo III, and the "secret mmo that no one will play because they won't announce a title or genre". They have to be on their bottom tier of developers, at this point. That's the way this looks. And, to be honest, I expected them to lose a large quotient of their quality, because you can only stretch yourself thin for so long. You can't have all four games be absolutely amazing with competitive (read: up-to-date) graphics engines, amazing story, and scalable difficulty.

At this rate, I don't think I will be getting the expansion. I'm not interested in seeing a lifeless project, especially after all the shenanigans that have been going on. They've had over 5 years to figure out a consistent vision for each and every class. I don't feel like paying for a 2nd rate game based on haphazard methodology.

[Worgoblin]

GC laying the smack down! Boot all the stupid whiners from beta IMO, clearly they don't give a shit about testing and giving real feedback.

[Second]

"I hate to go all forum moderator on you guys, but we've seen a recent downward spiral in the quality of some of these threads and posts here on the beta forum."

Maybe they should start giving beta keys to experienced / devoted players who are willing to provide feedback / discusson on forums instead of throwing them to random clueless players?
Also it would be really really appreciated to let continuous subscribers have beta acces as a "reward"...
Some of my guildies playing on beta realms and its ridicilous what they say on VT what kind of players they meet...
They really should give beta option to those with certain ach. points / number of 80s / played time / money owned etc etc. Not to those who hit 80 in 30 days played during 2 months of subscription.

Guess you got my point.

On the other hand they want diversity of players in beta, generally speaking level of play.
That does not happen so much with old-school players. Maybe they could provide better feedback but for example Blizz UI is pretty much nonexistant within that sort of players. Newcomers use that a lot.
Guess you got my point.

EDIT for clarifying :
Generally speaking, good feedback is not based upon experience of player. Its about will and compasion, and presenting in decent manner.
You dont have to be 5-year playing hardcore raiding guy to provide such feedback, but it helps a bit in way you know how things work.

[fwc577]

Related, many trees lost a lot of true PvP talents, such as dispel resistance or mechanic duration reductions. These are the kind of talents I describe as "arms races," where you need a counter to the ability someone else is using to try to counter you. We'd rather reel the whole thing in a little and make things like crowd control or dispels as powerful or as weak as they need to be baseline rather than assuming you have talents that make them less powerful.

I see GC say this but I have yet to see them even begin to touch on Stuns, Snares, and CC yet.

These points in the trees were to counter or reduce these mechanics because classes don't like become useless in PvP because they cannot move or lose control of their character.

Something needs to be done about the Stuns, Snares, and CC or in Cataclysm you might as well roll classes who have the most control because everyone else is going to be made virtually useless in PvP.

Shamans and Paladins losing dispel resistance is a huge disadvantage for these classes, they have no reliable escape or gap closers. What's going to stop a rogue from say Bleed kiting a paladin to death now? He will spend 90% of the fight snared unable to do anything because his Hand of Freedom is on cooldown. Shamans are in the same boat, they are looked at as free HKs now, in xpac they are going to end up free HKs with a little more health.

They aren't the only classes, Warlocks are also going to suffer, right now the only way a Warlock can down any of my toons in PvP is if he is geared enough to be able to kill me during a death coil + Fear if my trinket is on cooldown. PvP as a Warlock in xpansion is going to be hell when they can do almost nothing and will spend the fight CC'd/Snared.

Warriors are making it fine out of the arms race, as Arms will have Juggernaught, Fury will have Imp Intercept, and Prot will have Warbringer giving them the extra mobility they need to help and negate the snares in PvP.

Hunters are another class that will suffer from these changes when their partners will have less of an ability to aid them at getting range.


PvP is going to be really messed up for a while unless they take a hard look at the abilities that caused this "arms race" as they put it, but they seem to lack the understanding that it is something tht will be needed.

[Unionoob]

Easy fix to all this dumbass QQ.

Pick the top 2 guilds from every server and give them beta invites. Since the servers range from mediocre to world class you'll have a good mix of players in there. Good and bad will be covered.

sorry don't think 2 best guild from all realms would be best pick. Or it will turn out like any other PTR, Beta when top guilds spend hours on new raid bosses to try them, find out best way to lvl to get world first boss kills, and after bitch how easy content is.


IMO invites should get new people, random mix from raiders But main prio for the most active and best feedbeck givers on forums. those who are giving best feedback's now on live should get prio to get in and test new expansion. atleast we would know they would do there job not only QQ.

[crsh1976]

Hopefully they'll sort out the talent trees soon enough; as of now, for the 3 classes I play at lv80, none of the talent trees make sense or are even well laid-out. Being forced to dump points in something useless (ie. a PvP-oriented talent in a PvE-centric spec) because there's really no other option is lame beyond words.

Yeah I know, they aren't final, but so far I'm not impressed at all.

[Druishprince]

HURR DURR Blizz serves you right having crap forum posters. 80% of wow players are all trolls and asshats, so it only makes sense the majority of beta receivers don't give a damn about anything except gloating about their beta keys. I can't speak for other realms, but our trade chat has become the new 4chan. And what is Blizzard's solution? Empty threats to said trolls. sorry, but trolls are like tie fighters; they don't fear annihilation, and killing one only spawns three more in its stead.

[greyghost]

If you keep making the kinds of threads that get locked, then you'll be removed from the beta and we will replace you with someone who can provide intelligent feedback.

I hope that happens.

A-freaking-men.

People going "AAAAA NOTHING WORKS WHATS GOING ON THIS IS STUPID" aren't serving the purpose to which they were invited to the Beta. Nothing of value would be lost if they were removed and a new batch of invites were sent out.

It annoys me to no end when I refresh the Cata forums and I see nothing but "WHY CANT I MAKE WORGEN. (((" even though there are lists stickied in that exact same forum detailing the known bugs of the current build. I mean, most of us here aren't even IN the Beta and we've got a better idea about what's going on with the current glitches and errors than some of those people do. It's ridiculous.

Yanno, apart from the fact that I also keep seeing Name-and-Shame threads, "lol I ganked u noob" shit as well. I mean, yes, play the game as you normally would to test out stuff, but shit-talking on the forums where game designers are trying to nail down every little bug possible helps nobody.