If I get this right..

[smokii]

as far as i understood it, 10 and 25 man raids would be dropping the same loot, be roughly the same difficulty, would share the same lock out, would both have legendaries available and would share achievements.

the differences i believe are: more badges, gold and a slightly higher loot per player ratio in the 25 mans.

those who raid 25 mans would not have to do daily heroics for extra badges to top up their weekly allowance, whereas 10 man raiders would probably have to do some daily heroics. yes, there is a cap on how many badges you can earn per week.

edit: regarding legendaries. they said they would likely be available in 10 mans, but only from the hard modes. considering they are attempting to balance the 10/25 difficulties as best possible, it seems fair to me.

[klaps_05]

different achievements, legendarys only from 25man, until they change their mind

[Cluck]

I am so totally almost sure on this one, I promise to kick myself if wrong. I'll edit this if/when I find it.

I don't know the details because we probably won't do a legendary for the first tier, but we would definitely not want a structure such that a 25 guild felt like the fastest way to finish the item was to run multiple 10s. If the 25s could finish it first, that would be fine. The 10s would still be able to get the item, which is not possible today.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&pageNo=45#884

[Zurth]

There was a post a while back (adding to what bahumut5 said) stating that 100% drop rate mounts now (such as Mims head and Invincible) would be changed to a lower % drop rate. I cannot find any blues to confirm what you are asking OP however I am 99% sure that:

both 10 and 25man raids will share the same lockout.

Not sure about the exact specifics such as: can i kill a boss on 10m and then the next boss on 25 etc.

Hope this helps.

[Condemner]

As for the 25man guild gearing up faster, thats not certain. It depends on how much more loot will drop as you have 25 players to distribute gear between as to only 10 in a 10man guild

I believe they said that 25men raids will drop more loot per player then a 10man does. Wouldn't be right if there wasn´t some form of reward forming a 25man.

[Herecius]

There will just be raid achievements, not 10- vs. 25-player versions in most cases. The achievement won’t care if you complete it in 10s or 25s. If we do meta-achievement mounts, it’s possible we’d still have different colors of mounts, or maybe even different mounts; but for some players that might mean that 25s feels mandatory again, which would be a potential problem. This is the kind of thing we’re going to have to consider carefully, and again, we might try a few different implementations before sticking with something we like.

We’re also not sure about realm first achievements or titles. We don’t want to encourage, say, 25-player focused guilds to run a 10-player raid instead because they think that will get them the ream first title faster. One potential solution is you can earn a realm first title in 10 or 25, but not both. These types of achievements also serve as great content for guild achievements.

I think that's the achievement quote you were searching for, and yeah, I can't find anything about legendaries either, so I may have imagined that one, derp. Somebody found it for me! Thank you. Have a look at Cluck's post.

As for the whole 'calling people trolls' thing, really, the OP was replying with something like 'so 10/25 is just gonna be the same shit' is an extremely trollish response, worded in a way that is pretty capable of inciting flames.

[bahumut5]

bla bla bla

Not anything like that good Sir, but you have to see this from a Mods point of view. I get around 100-300 reports a day. Which means I have to decide if a person is trolling or not. In this case, the OP's post said "So we can slack and skip raids --> Get good gear like those über 25 man guilds --> what I marked:

I havent really read up that much on the raid changes, but I read about the 10/25 = same shit. Does that mean we can form a 10man raid, raid lets say Grim Batol and get the same loot as the übergood 25man guild on our server and battle for the First Kills. Or will there be 10/25 versions of the achievements

Now, again, I get a lot of Troll's in a day. It was not yet accusing (I would have already banned for that), it was just more or less of a warning that the OP could have "used different words" to ask his question.

Troll's tend to try to make something as short as possible and also try to get as many people in the thread to flame each other. In this case, there were multiple threads regarding this matter already, and again: The OP tried to be straight to the point and therefor leaving important details out of the explanation.

So yes, I was really curious if OP was a Troll or not, which is why I claimed it.
Trolls usually go straight in Defense or start flaming me when I accuse them, normal users just ignore me and continue the story without blaming/flaming/trolling other users.

[Buckwald]

the OP was replying with something like 'so 10/25 is just gonna be the same shit' is an extremely trollish response, worded in a way that is pretty capable of inciting flames.

Or he/she was just asking a question? I, in no way, found it trolling. He might literally have had no idea about the raid changes and was honestly curious.

[Condemner]

I don't know the details because we probably won't do a legendary for the first tier, but we would definitely not want a structure such that a 25 guild felt like the fastest way to finish the item was to run multiple 10s. If the 25s could finish it first, that would be fine. The 10s would still be able to get the item, which is not possible today.

Isnt't this the part about legendaries? i'm not sure i get this right, but aren't they saying 10's will be able to get em, only it will take a bit longer?

[yomyom]

I believe they said that 25men raids will drop more loot per player then a 10man does. Wouldn't be right if there wasn´t some form of reward forming a 25man.

Yeah, I believe bliz took some care to mention that it would be more loot per person in 25 than 10, with out saying how much loot each boss will drop. My best guess would be it will be 2 for 10man, and 6 or 7 in 25man. However it could easily go 1 for 10 and 3-4 for 25. Only time will tell. Either way for guilds who want to compete in the top end, the extra gear you get from 25 will be a very good bonus, and for people like me who like raiding with smaller friendly groups (and want an excuse to not bring some people to my raids) 10 will be the way to go.

Can't be a 100% sure on this, but I believe achievements will not be 10/25, and legendary will be much more quest and grind orientated, and therefore accessible to 10mans (but not necessarily easy)

[Herecius]

Isnt't this the part about legendaries? i'm not sure i get this right, but aren't they saying 10's will be able to get em, only it will take a bit longer?

That's what it sounds like. Pretty easily done, too. Imagine if the Shadowfrost Shards dropped in 10man... but had a third of the drop rate. It would take a lot longer to get Shadowmourne with the shards dropping at such a reduced rate, but eventually, you would get it. I think that's what Blizz is going for here. Also good to see that post as it ALSO mentions that the legendary most likely won't be in the first tier, a big misconception I've been seeing all over MMO-Champ lately.

[HavokHeart]

I dont think if you are starting over that you will be competing for any world first kills.. esp the intro raids. Unless they do the gating thing... hah.

[Contrary Jerry]

They will most likely make a incentive for raiding 25mans, like pets/mounts or quest items like a Onyxia's head only dropping in a 25 man version.

[Deleted]

Not anything like that good Sir, but you have to see this from a Mods point of view. I get around 100-300 reports a day. Which means I have to decide if a person is trolling or not. In this case, the OP's post said "So we can slack and skip raids --> Get good gear like those über 25 man guilds --> what I marked:

Alright, this was a missunderstanding.

So we can slack and skip raids was ment to be Skip raidNIGHTS, not raids
And the 10/25 = same shit was more like a "Its the same exept not that much loot and not that much people to keep track of.

I understand that you have to see it from a Mod Pov but I asked a pretty simple question (that got missunderstood)

[bahumut5]

Alright, this was a missunderstanding.

So we can slack and skip raids was ment to be Skip raidNIGHTS, not raids
And the 10/25 = same shit was more like a "Its the same exept not that much loot and not that much people to keep track of.

I understand that you have to see it from a Mod Pov but I asked a pretty simple question (that got missunderstood)

I understand that, and you have my most sincere apologies for that, but I just felt like explaining why I initially thought you could be a Troll

[Deleted]

By the way, OP, your signature seems to be linked wrong. If I click on your character Buutch, it takes me to Zemaniac's page. Just thought I'd point that out.

---------- Post added 2010-07-27 at 03:41 PM ----------

They will most likely make a incentive for raiding 25mans, like pets/mounts or quest items like a Onyxia's head only dropping in a 25 man version.

And goddamnit, your signature scares the hell out of me!

[Deleted]

By the way, OP, your signature seems to be linked wrong. If I click on your character Buutch, it takes me to Zemaniac's page. Just thought I'd point that out.

---------- Post added 2010-07-27 at 03:41 PM ----------



And goddamnit, your signature scares the hell out of me!

Holy shit, havent noticed that, thank you ! haha :c

---------- Post added 2010-07-27 at 01:44 PM ----------

I dont think if you are starting over that you will be competing for any world first kills.. esp the intro raids. Unless they do the gating thing... hah.

It was an example dude..

[Deleted]

Holy shit, havent noticed that, thank you ! haha :c

No probs, I'm always stalking other people's characters. :P

[Deleted]

No probs, I'm always stalking other people's characters. :P

Haha nice one. It should be fix'd now, so keep on stalking