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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by aether99 View Post
    in beta? cuz on my shaman it doesnt currently.[COLOR="red"]
    Not in beta. At the moment.
    Last edited by Foxhoundn; 2010-07-29 at 09:13 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhoundn View Post
    Not in beta. At the moment.
    quite interesting, unfortunately it still accounts for a very small portion of our dps.

    Something id like to see is take a lot of those small dps contributers and remove them, then buff the fewer ones that still exist, and give them more synergy with eachother. sadly its probably a pipedream

  3. #23
    I don't believe that it will take that long for Searing totem to stack 5 times. Currently it fires every 2.2seconds, more or less, and since its a guaranteed application when fully specced into, it wont be an RNG proc like maelstrom. Moreover, Consider that our 'priority list' will change somewhat come cataclysm (especially on movement fights), with unleash weapon, FS, stormstrike, spiritwalker's grace (coupled with Lava burst and LB because of it's effects, while you'e moving), etc. By the time you get to lava lash (And indeed, once it comes off CD, since its being increased to 10sec from 6sec), its a fair bet that you'll have enough stacks to make the most of it.

    I see it as an interesting solution to our movement fight problems. Indeed, if blizzard increases the attack speed on the totem, and fixes the issue with its targeting, it might very well be worthwhile.

    As for magma, it will retain its usefulness in AoE situations, but i can think of several fights off the top of my head in ICC alone where using an improved searing totem (or alternating it with magma) would be more helpful: Blood princes, Putricide, LK (at least at certain points), sindragosa, Marrowgar, LDW, saurfang...

    And when you're down to min-maxing your dps (as most of us will be, considering we'll be starting at 80, and going to 85), it's kind of annoying that all three tier 1 talents would be mandatory.

    EDIT: Also, all three spec's get Primal strike (since i believe it works with one weapon as well). It's ele and resto shamans have something to do when mobs smack them in the face while levelling, instead of spamming shocks and LBs.
    Last edited by bloodhaven; 2010-07-29 at 09:41 AM.
    Brightaegis - Enhancement Shaman - Stormrage

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    PLEASE post this great wall-o-wisdom at US/European (prefferably US) WoW forums.

    All you written pretty much sums up the 100% truth about Enhancement Shamans.

    Its absolutely a MUST for Blizzard to read and consider all this.
    If they do not, Enhancement is going to be a junk spec again...

    This. Please.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-29 at 10:52 AM ----------

    Reading through this i came across something that annoys me.
    Nothing you guys said ofc.

    The talk about Searing totem "combo points" monitoring.

    Now. When you guys raid, you do it with addons. Most of you probably use Levva's awesome Shock and Awe(I freakin love you Levva).

    My point is. Try going into just a 10man or a 5man and monitoring Maelstorm manually.
    These talents, forces us to get addons. It just doesnt seem right.
    Furthermore, is it going to be a simple task to implement the Searing Totem stacks into SAA? If it's easy, then wuhu, but still.. Imagine monitoring those 2 without addons ><

    As someone else mentioned Primal Strike and Storm Strike will share Cooldowns so PM is useless after you get SS.

    Another talent that annoys me is Static Shock.

    Although it's been there for a while now, it's - as mentioned - entirely proc dependant and with the removal of Orb absorbtion completely without interaction from the player. Furthermore it's still at 3 Talent points in cost, even though we get our Talent points halved or something silly. Would not mind seeing it reduced to a 2pointer.

    I can totally see what the OP means with the mana regen talents and all, but i'm fascinated by the idea of the new Shamanistic Rage. Mostly so, because i'm hoping - hoping alot - that this will free up SR as a Defensive Cooldown that we've realy cried for alot. If this is the case, be thankful. We realy wanted it.

    It is a worry though that Primal Wisdom may not by itself be able to sustain our mana through more intensive periods, where we use Magma/CL/FN.
    Unless my calculating skills are terribad those 3 spells. JUST those 3 spells uses up 75% of our base mana pool. And Enhance will be working with Base Mana pool. And truthfully how often do you guys place a Magma totem only to have mobs moved JUST enough to have to replace it only seconds later. This scenario just used up 102% of your mana. I hope PW is worth it's salt.

    Edit: For the last bit, yes i know we're expecting to use SR for AOE periods. But i was hoping SR could be entirely a defensive Cooldown.

    Edit: To the poster above me, i realy don't think we'll be using Spirit Walkers grace to dps. If we need to move it needs to be done swiftly and in Ghostwolf so we can hit the boss some more and fast at that. Our damage drops significantly when we are not swinging our weapons so i'd definently imagine it would be a bigger increase in damage to just get to the new location fast rather than get there later with a few LB/LvB.
    Last edited by Tides; 2010-07-29 at 10:57 AM.

  5. #25
    I believe that spiritwalker's grace should be usable in ghostwolf form, seeing as how it allows you to cast while moving (the moving being the imperative part ). If it isn't, that would be annoying, but in a perfect world, one would be able to pop SWgrace, go to ghost wolf, and let a few LBs and LvB nail the target before you ever get close enough to wail on it. Hell, i remember reading somewhere that when SPgrace is active, spellcasting might not even be interrupted by your own attacks. If all of that functionality ends up being implemented, it might turn out to be pretty badass.
    Brightaegis - Enhancement Shaman - Stormrage

  6. #26
    Casting anything - anything - removes Ghostwolf..

  7. #27
    Too much random uncontrollable damage. Its not fun, its terrible in PvP and in short PvE fights.
    Windfury, Maelstrom, Static Shock - all too much random and unreliable. Its so random it is not even fun anymore, and its killing the Enhancement spec.

    Searing Totem stacks. Beside ST being uncontrollable and stupid, it takes him ~ 12 seconds to create 5 stacks on the (hopefully correct) target. This is a huge ramp up time, not even the Affliction Warlocks have such a terribly long ramp up time.
    Searing Totem should be made to fire much faster, and require only 2 or 3 stacks to perform the same job.

    Searing Totem + Improved Lava Lash VS Magma Totem for AoE fights.
    One thing is to decide should you cast Blizzard or Frost Bolt for AoE fights, but forcing Enhancement to forsake the whole ''ST+impLavaLash'' design just to do decent AoE damage is simply BAD DESIGN.

    Enhancement in PvP.
    Even beside the new talents or spells Shamans get in Cataclysm, Enhancement still seems like a VERY lackluster PvP spec.
    Too much random uncontrollable damage, Searing Totem + impLava Lash is gonna be too slow and useless in PvP, too little Defensive and Mobility capabilities compared to other melee specs.

    * As i said before to the OP, please post this on US or European official forum.
    And pick a subforum that is visited OFTEN by Blues (look for this using the Blue Tracker on Mmo champ).

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tides View Post
    Casting anything - anything - removes Ghostwolf..
    Im aware of that, which is why i said IF you cast SPgrace BEFORE going into ghostwolf, and IF its ability to enable casting without interruption regardless of movement extends to Ghostwolf form as well, THEN it might very well be viable.
    Brightaegis - Enhancement Shaman - Stormrage

  9. #29
    Toughness- we our out of the TIER 2 talents where supposedly all those passive affect talents end according to blizz, obviously not the case but i will over look it and just take that talents by there own merits the best i can. Toughness's +armor is pretty much wasted on a pure dps class, i know we get rockbiter and a tauent using it with unleash weapon, but that is pve, and there are still better talents to be taken in a pve spec even with the new trees. people will not take toughness if they are serious about raiding, at most they will take it for pvp and the reduced movement speed duration, in which case there is still no synergy with rockbiter (cant taunt in pvp) and the +armor is a minimal benefit. its a mediocre talent basically
    it´s been stamina since a while. otherwhise your right .

    how to fix our proccyness:
    1.) fix sf/ll
    a)make sf baseline effect of searing totem ( buff to ele dmg as well ), to safe three talent points
    it´s simply not worth putting 5 points into making one ability worthwhile
    b)instead of a debuff on the target, make it either an effect on both caster and target or on caster only.
    in case 1:, the debuff will be the stacking hot, the buff will be the combopoints. this way, even if someone would dispell the dot, he would not dispell the combopoints.
    in case2:, there´d be no stacking hot, which would mean shaman would get a buff only enh would be able to consume/put to a use, so i rather think of option1.
    c) make it stack through flame shock instead of searing totem, similar to bizzuri´s totem of shattered ice

    2.) fix lvb
    make imp lava lash (additionally to it´s increased damage and consumed searing flame charges) make your next lava burst spell instant cast (100%), and increase it´s damage by 20% ( assuming we keep crappy mastery and low sp coefficient ). this way, we´ll have additional synergy between fire spells
    fs => uw => sf5x ll => lvb
    msw wont be used for lvb, like now (lvb not working with msw), so we do not have three spells depending on one ppm mechanic.

    3.) ss
    let ss additionally proc static shock (100%chance). this way, static shock will still be a proc, but partly a guaranteed part of an active ability.


    instead of procs, through skill you will then:
    -guarantee ed uptime through insta lvb
    -guarantee insta lvb through fs and sf5x ll
    -guarantee sf5x ll through fs dot
    -guaranteed (partly) static shock dmg through ss

    still proccy (which i think is ok):
    -msw5x lb/cl
    -stack shock (partly)
    -flurry

    active use:
    -ss
    -ll
    -es
    -fs

    and instead of our current mana system and what is planned for cata, i´d see a mix of them. our gear goes the right way, but mana system should be closer to what we have atm.

    1.) instead of mental quickness base talent, change it from xx% of ap as sp, make it xx%agi as int, this way,
    a)we keep our bigger mana pool
    b)do not require lack luster primal wisdom
    c) get spellpower through int, which will (unlike mq base tlanet), scale through kings
    d) last long enough to do with sr, which

    2.) will stay as it is, with the exception that the dmg recution will be separated to be a new ability.
    shamanistic rage will serve the purpose of getting our mana back up like now.

    3.) instead of primal wisdom, reintroduce imp. stormstrike, but instead of ss let it work on shocks (imp. shocks). this way we wont be as dependant on being in melee range to keep up our mana, which is a big fault atm in pvp.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2010-07-29 at 12:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    it´s been stamina since a while. otherwhise your right .

    how to fix our proccyness:
    1.) fix sf/ll
    a)make sf baseline effect of searing totem ( buff to ele dmg as well ), to safe three talent points
    it´s simply not worth putting 5 points into making one ability worthwhile
    b)instead of a debuff on the target, make it either an effect on both caster and target or on caster only.
    in case 1:, the debuff will be the stacking hot, the buff will be the combopoints. this way, even if someone would dispell the dot, he would not dispell the combopoints.
    in case2:, there´d be no stacking hot, which would mean shaman would get a buff only enh would be able to consume/put to a use, so i rather think of option1.
    c) make it stack through flame shock instead of searing totem, similar to bizzuri´s totem of shattered ice

    2.) fix lvb
    make imp lava lash (additionally to it´s increased damage and consumed searing flame charges) make your next lava burst spell instant cast (100%), and increase it´s damage by 20% ( assuming we keep crappy mastery and low sp coefficient ). this way, we´ll have additional synergy between fire spells
    fs => uw => sf5x ll => lvb
    msw wont be used for lvb, like now (lvb not working with msw), so we do not have three spells depending on one ppm mechanic.

    3.) ss
    let ss additionally proc static shock (100%chance). this way, static shock will still be a proc, but partly a guaranteed part of an active ability.


    instead of procs, through skill you will then:
    -guarantee ed uptime through insta lvb
    -guarantee insta lvb through fs and sf5x ll
    -guarantee sf5x ll through fs dot
    -guaranteed (partly) static shock dmg through ss

    still proccy (which i think is ok):
    -msw5x lb/cl
    -stack shock (partly)
    -flurry

    active use:
    -ss
    -ll
    -es
    -fs

    and instead of our current mana system and what is planned for cata, i´d see a mix of them. our gear goes the right way, but mana system should be closer to what we have atm.

    1.) instead of mental quickness base talent, change it from xx% of ap as sp, make it xx%agi as int, this way,
    a)we keep our bigger mana pool
    b)do not require lack luster primal wisdom
    c) get spellpower through int, which will (unlike mq base tlanet), scale through kings
    d) last long enough to do with sr, which

    2.) will stay as it is, with the exception that the dmg recution will be separated to be a new ability.
    shamanistic rage will serve the purpose of getting our mana back up like now.

    3.) instead of primal wisdom, reintroduce imp. stormstrike, but instead of ss let it work on shocks (imp. shocks). this way we wont be as dependant on being in melee range to keep up our mana, which is a big fault atm in pvp.
    Some very good ideas here Omanley!!

    I dont think that instant lavaburst after lavalash is needed, since i it probably wouldnt do more dps than LB (with the mastery and SS debuff).

    We will most likely use LvB only to keep Elemental Devastation up for 100% of available.

    I like your point about SF, as i mentioned in my 121442312 last posts, it should be buff not a debuff.

    Regarding Mental Quickness - please dont forget there will be no int on gear at all for us, and there is probably reason for it, so i dont think blizzard would go back to giving us big mana pool throug agi > int change, altho its a good idea combined with spellpower from intellect.

    Regarding Primal Wisdom- dont forget that we are still melee class, we use ranged spells and attacks, but so do paladins. The thing we are dependant to be in melee range to get mana back (which comes from our melee attacks) is quite obvious and personally i dont have any problems with SR.I dont know how primal wisdom will work, and if it still will be necessary to use it, if not then it should be change to our OH SHIT button - Reduces incoming damage by 90% and successful melee attacks heal you for 10% of damage done. Something like that.

    Anyway, i hope someone will for sure put this conversation on official forum and it will be caught by some attention

  11. #31
    * Inner CD of WF
    ** acknowledged, but really a mystery if anything's being done
    ** punishes fast weapons really hard (in addition to design of SS/LL)

    * High amount of damage comes from passive abilities and procs
    ** acknowledged, however, the only change this far is the LL change (correct me if I'm wrong here)

    * handicapped when fight requires movement and/or switching targets due our reliance on self-buffs and stationary totems
    ** Ancestral Swiftness/Wolves/Spiritwalkers Grace
    ** longer cooldowns and fire nova change (not being gcd-capped) will maybe give a proper timeslot for dropping totems
    ** no luck with the self-buff problem : LL change actually just makes it worse

    * totems being a burden instead of our very-cool-special-thing
    ** dropping all 4 totems with single spell
    ** Earthen Power/Fire Nova/etc. adding an active component to a totem
    ** most of the totems are still passive and dull buffpoles

    * lack of proactive resource gain
    ** removal of Imp.SS and change to SR results us being completely dependent on getting melee hits on target
    ** removal of INT from gear means we will OOM really soon if we wont get those precious hits

  12. #32
    Mechagnome SolSphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tides View Post
    This. Please.[COLOR="red"]
    Another talent that annoys me is Static Shock.

    Although it's been there for a while now, it's - as mentioned - entirely proc dependant and with the removal of Orb absorbtion completely without interaction from the player. Furthermore it's still at 3 Talent points in cost, even though we get our Talent points halved or something silly. Would not mind seeing it reduced to a 2pointer.
    Going to repeat some of this...

    Static Shock is a thre point talent on it's on. This talent requires no input from the user other than Speccing into it. This is free damage. For the majority of us, we also spec into improved shields to actually buff this ability. That makes this cost us 6 ta;ents points to get the full effect of this ability.

    So we are looking at 6 points to get no input from user free damage. Now I'm not saying breing back the whole refresh the shields thing so don't get me wrong. I still would consider that 6 points with minimal input from the user. But as it stands, this talents combo is BORING. Yes I'm using that word because that seems to be Blizzards faovorite word to through around when it comes to talents atm. It's almost like this should be a baseline ability. something along the lines of.

    Static Shock (self buff) - When you MELEE a target enemy you have a 6% change to discharge your lightning Shield (yes that what the talent says)

    And then the talented buff to the ability

    Improved shields - Increases the damage done by your lightning shield by x amount.

    That reduces the ability to 3 points and frees up space for something else that could improve the shaman playstyle.

    Same boring ability. Way less talent poitns required for non user innput ability.

    Just to add this in. It doesn't crit.

    And it's avg. damage done by me: 2653.7 (each) from a DBS parse.

    I'm wearing 4 piece (2 Heroic sanc rest Sanc) Heroic BIS everything except weaons (BB,KS) and Neck is the BoE one. So preety well geared.

    It hit 38 times doing a total of: 1008413.9% of my damage on that fight.
    Last edited by SolSphere; 2010-07-29 at 02:56 PM.
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  13. #33

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodhaven View Post
    @OP

    A few issues on which i disagree with you:

    1) Searing totem + Lava lash
    - I believe the reasoning behind buffing searing totem and changing its functionality, is to provide us with a better tool for movement-intensive fights. While this will remain a poor choice for a fight with multiple adds, it is actually pretty interesting for others. On Putricide for example, this would allow us to do something more worthwhile that constantly dropping magma every few steps in phase three, and given its increased range over magma, it also allows us to do something interesting when burning oozes etc.

    If there was a way to link it specifically to the target you're targeting, that would make it a lot more attractive.

    Tl;dr: - It's not a replacement, but an alternative to magma (and frees up GCDs, since i believe fire nova is not intended to work with it).

    2) Improved shields - I disagree with your opinion that this is a talent that may end up being ignored in tier 1. In fact, the massive buff it provides to our lightning shield, coupled with static shock, actually makes it a very attractive dps talent.

    Which brings me to:

    My own scruple with the new talent trees:

    If you attempt to create a 'max-dps' spec, you will find that it is impossible to acquire Ancestral swiftness (which is the only talent i am REALLY excited about) and shamanistic rage.
    Essentially, a max dps spec would have everything in the the enh tree, except for
    - toughness
    - totemic vigor
    - frozen power
    - earthen power
    - Shamanistic rage
    - ancestral swiftness,

    in order to have enough points to fully invest in the elemental tree, to acquire
    - Convection, Concussion
    - improved fire nova, Call of flame.

    Blizzard themselves have stated that 2 points in Primal Wisdom will be required for enhancement shamans at max level to avoid going oom, and by making that mandatory we have no points 'left over' to invest in ancestral swiftness.

    This annoys me considerably, since i believe the movement speed increase + instacast ghost wolf would be phenomenal. But there does not appear to be a talent (as far as i can see), that i could justify taking points out of, in order to invest in Ancestral.

    EDIT: in retrospect, Imp. Fire nova does the same thing as Call of flame, except that it also reduces the CD on fire nova. Since it's blizzard's intention to give us more GCDs freedom, its possible that we're not supposed to spec into it as enh, and instead put those points somewhere else. But i could be totally wrong.
    You are so wrong at so many points.

    Improved shields is NOT a massive dps increase, and is actually one of the best talents to give up in favor of mana regen currently, this doesn't change in cata.

    Shamanistic rage and ancestral swiftness ARE part of the max dps build. You clearly don't know the math on movement speed if you are taking imp shields over ancestral swiftness.

    You also usede Tl;dr without a wall of text in the beginning of your statement.

    As far as posting this, I'd be happy to post it myself in the beta forums, along with my own input responding to it.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-29 at 01:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodhaven View Post
    I don't believe that it will take that long for Searing totem to stack 5 times. Currently it fires every 2.2seconds, more or less, and since its a guaranteed application when fully specced into, it wont be an RNG proc like maelstrom. Moreover, Consider that our 'priority list' will change somewhat come cataclysm (especially on movement fights), with unleash weapon, FS, stormstrike, spiritwalker's grace (coupled with Lava burst and LB because of it's effects, while you'e moving), etc. By the time you get to lava lash (And indeed, once it comes off CD, since its being increased to 10sec from 6sec), its a fair bet that you'll have enough stacks to make the most of it.

    I see it as an interesting solution to our movement fight problems. Indeed, if blizzard increases the attack speed on the totem, and fixes the issue with its targeting, it might very well be worthwhile.

    As for magma, it will retain its usefulness in AoE situations, but i can think of several fights off the top of my head in ICC alone where using an improved searing totem (or alternating it with magma) would be more helpful: Blood princes, Putricide, LK (at least at certain points), sindragosa, Marrowgar, LDW, saurfang...

    And when you're down to min-maxing your dps (as most of us will be, considering we'll be starting at 80, and going to 85), it's kind of annoying that all three tier 1 talents would be mandatory.

    EDIT: Also, all three spec's get Primal strike (since i believe it works with one weapon as well). It's ele and resto shamans have something to do when mobs smack them in the face while levelling, instead of spamming shocks and LBs.
    Have you played beta? You believe? It takes plenty of time to stack, it's a pain in the ass, but it does meet the goal of creating gcd gaps. The only reason I don't use magma is because you cannot retain mana regen during aoe, magma and cl are too costly, and the 40% chance to proc 5% mana just isn't keeping up, even over 1k haste.

    all tier 1 talents aren't mandatory, you are making baseless, mathless claims, please stop. Let someone who knows what they are doing figure it out and tell you what to do, as always, because you clearly just jump to conclusions and do not reach respectable conclusions.

    Forgive me if that sounds confrontational, but so far your contributions to this thread have been largely opinionated, dataless, yet posted as fact.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-29 at 01:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tides View Post
    Snip.
    You are correct about aoe, it completely destroys your mana pool and you cannot keep it up. I had to go ele in one of the new instances, because my group was full of people who xferred in 232 gear(do not ask me why), and I had to do it so at least one of us could provide solid aoe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danund81
    Just SAY IT.* "I'm right you're wrong and I know it because I have the power of a website's link."

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesgetndown View Post
    However I am hoping they change a bit more for shammies indeed.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-29 at 01:05 AM ----------

    I was just saying: do a bit more research before you try to make an extensive post such as this.
    Moderator interjection in this thread. Keep it civil please. There are plenty of ways to CONSTRUCTIVELY criticise a post instead of picking tiny holes.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargarii View Post
    You are so wrong at so many points.

    Improved shields is NOT a massive dps increase, and is actually one of the best talents to give up in favor of mana regen currently, this doesn't change in cata.

    Shamanistic rage and ancestral swiftness ARE part of the max dps build. You clearly don't know the math on movement speed if you are taking imp shields over ancestral swiftness.

    You also usede Tl;dr without a wall of text in the beginning of your statement.

    As far as posting this, I'd be happy to post it myself in the beta forums, along with my own input responding to it.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-29 at 01:22 PM ----------



    Have you played beta? You believe? It takes plenty of time to stack, it's a pain in the ass, but it does meet the goal of creating gcd gaps. The only reason I don't use magma is because you cannot retain mana regen during aoe, magma and cl are too costly, and the 40% chance to proc 5% mana just isn't keeping up, even over 1k haste.

    all tier 1 talents aren't mandatory, you are making baseless, mathless claims, please stop. Let someone who knows what they are doing figure it out and tell you what to do, as always, because you clearly just jump to conclusions and do not reach respectable conclusions.

    Forgive me if that sounds confrontational, but so far your contributions to this thread have been largely opinionated, dataless, yet posted as fact.

    ---------- Post added 2010-07-29 at 01:27 PM ----------



    You are correct about aoe, it completely destroys your mana pool and you cannot keep it up. I had to go ele in one of the new instances, because my group was full of people who xferred in 232 gear(do not ask me why), and I had to do it so at least one of us could provide solid aoe.
    Talking about math when no raid is available for testing is wrong. You just dont know if movement talent will beat free damage talent in cataclysm.

    This has to be tested in raids. Not just because you said its wrong, it is wrong. Do not fool people, because you feel like an elitist.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxhoundn View Post
    Talking about math when no raid is available for testing is wrong. You just dont know if movement talent will beat free damage talent in cataclysm.

    This has to be tested in raids. Not just because you said its wrong, it is wrong. Do not fool people, because you feel like an elitist.
    Run speed math is already done. It's value scales higher and higher with the more dps we do. It's going to take a decent dmg increase for imp shields 3 talents to severely out value the 2 for ancestral swiftness, and even then I'm confident in acestral swiftness itself being more valuable because it takes 6 talents to make the most out of imp shields vs 2, and then taking survivability into account, I stand by those words.


    /edit Update


    I added the post to US forums as well @ http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...89430&sid=2000

    this puts us on US and EU beta forums.

    Don't get too excited, though. The current shaman discussion page has 26 pages and no blizz response, unlike many other class discussion threads.
    Last edited by Vargarii; 2010-07-29 at 02:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danund81
    Just SAY IT.* "I'm right you're wrong and I know it because I have the power of a website's link."

  18. #38
    Deleted
    No blue responce does not mean they are not reading it.
    Btw if your going to post on the beta forum you might want to mention in the title its about shamans and not make it looks like you are advertising mmo-champ (don't want to see you get banned because a mod doesn't like us )

  19. #39
    Mechagnome SolSphere's Avatar
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    625
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargarii View Post
    Run speed math is already done. It's value scales higher and higher with the more dps we do. It's going to take a decent dmg increase for imp shields 3 talents to severely out value the 2 for ancestral swiftness, and even then I'm confident in acestral swiftness itself being more valuable because it takes 6 talents to make the most out of imp shields vs 2, and then taking survivability into account, I stand by those words.


    /edit Update


    I added the post to US forums as well @ http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...89430&sid=2000

    this puts us on US and EU beta forums.

    Don't get too excited, though. The current shaman discussion page has 26 pages and no blizz response, unlike many other class discussion threads.
    I think what Fox is getting at is we don't know what the raids movement requirements will be like. They could be a more Fester/Saurfang fights in cata that don't require as much movement. I highly doubt that will be the case, but even so we can't state facts on situations that don't exist yet. In the end you will probably be correct though.
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  20. #40
    @ Vargarii:
    1) At no point did i convey my observations as anything other than speculation, and my own opinion. I am making guesses, albeit educated ones, based on the way our talent trees are currently organized, and the way spells behave now (and on how their Cata versions perform as well). I believe this was an "opinion" thread to begin with, and when everyone starts backing up all of their claims with irrefutable math, i will gladly stop speaking. In any case where i have mentioned something specific about GCDs or durations, i checked it against MMO-champions own repository of Cata changes for shamans.

    2) As far as ancestral swiftness goes, perhaps you didn't gather from my post that i KNOW it's an amazing talent. In fact, that is primarily why i am annoyed that talents that directly contribute to enh shaman dps are required to be sacrificed, in order to acquire it. All of my speculation centers around what appears to be a max-dps build. I know that the insta-cast ghost wolf, combined with the flat 15% speed increase is a huge deal, considering Tuskarr's Vitality only provides an 8% increase ATM.
    However, if you are min-maxing, it seems that you will inevitably sacrifice a talent that directly contributes to your dps in order to acquire it. If you believe i am mistaken, show me a build that allows you to get all of the important Enh tree PvE talents (i.e AnCswiftness + shamanistic rage as well), and still leaves you enough points to invest in the ele tree in a worthwhile fashion, without sacrificing a DPS talent in the Enh tree.

    3) AS far as the tier 1 talents go, please elaborate on why you think imp. shields (a talent that is currently a part of our max dps build, and remains largely unaffected by cata changes) would NOT feature in a mandatory build.

    4) No i have not played beta. Again, i made no attempt to disguise my opinions as fact. As far as searing totem's functionality goes, you would have seen me constantly repeat that IF they were to fix it, there's no reason it would be the black hole for talent points it may appear to be ATM. Did i at any point say it is WORTH the 6 poi
    Brightaegis - Enhancement Shaman - Stormrage

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