I hope that Flasks scale....

[Deleted]

One of the things that has bugged me in WotLK (and probably happened in other expansions too), is that flasks/potions ect. do not scale. The common caster flask, Frost Wyrm, for example, always gives a flat +125 spellpower.

At the start of WotLK, just entering naxx, most people had around 2000 spellpower, more or less. 125 added to this is an extra 6.25%, a sizeable amount.
But, now at the end of the expansion, high end players have mostly over 4000 spellpower if they stack it. this dilutes a flasks value to only 3.125% of their spellpower, a much smaller relative dps gain.

I would love to see flasks which had effects such as "Increases your spellpower by 5%" or "Increases your attack power by 8%".
This would make sure that flasks are equally as valuble no matter what your gear is.

Obviously, flat percentage increases scale very well between expansions so restrictions would have to be used. Perhaps put a level 81 requirement so that it cannot be used in WotLK raids (I guess people will make WotLK guilds like they do BC guilds today), and make it unusable, or have a reduced (say, half) effect on players level 86 or higher, for when the new expansion comes.

[Bisso]

I'm not so much with the scaling buffs. We already have kings that makes us a bit overpowered at the end of an expansion. I always saw flask like a bonus you had to get in early content to make yourself more suited for the raid, and a fine buff if you really wanted to add these little numbers on the final content. With my hunter, I always had flasks in Naxx. But in ICC, I only use flask on the later bosses like Bloodqueen/sindra/LK.

[Deleted]

Im thinking that with kings and your gear getting stronger every tier its enough...

[Deleted]

the basic idea is decent. the problem is that it kind of messes with the bonus alchemists get from their profession. either alchemists have a superior bonus over all the rest, or they have a weird clutch where they both have a scaling part and a flat bonus.

also, in cataclysm, flasks and elixirs will need to be balanced against each other. flasks for and progression attempts, elixirs for farm content and nearly sure kills (like if you got the boss to 5% or so in the previous attempt. in this respect, i don't see scaling flasks, but i can see scaling elixirs.

[Deleted]

Im thinking that with kings and your gear getting stronger every tier its enough...

However, I think alchemy would be a much more profitable profession if flasks were scaleable. I don't think that Blizzard would make it mandatory to bring flasks to a raid so as of now, at least I, am better off just selling the herbs instead of making them into flasks.

Should flasks scale however I think there would be more people buying it thus more profit, and thus not making alchemy overshadowed by herbalism.

[huth]

Flasks are a flat 300 stat points in Cataclysm.

However, all of them will be increased by Kings/MotW.

[Lugo Moll]

What's the point, though? Everyone will be using them for raiding anyway, I doubt they will be outscaled to the point where people ignore them.

[Deleted]

At the start of WotLK, just entering naxx, most people had around 2000 spellpower, more or less. 125 added to this is an extra 6.25%, a sizeable amount.
But, now at the end of the expansion, high end players have mostly over 4000 spellpower if they stack it. this dilutes a flasks value to only 3.125% of their spellpower, a much smaller relative dps gain.

but a much larger real dps gain since a icc geared caster will have more ahste and crit than a naxx geared and thus will gain more dps from that extra spellpower
in naxx people did around 2k dps 6,25% of 2k is 125 so by this very bad and inexact math a flask in naxx gained you 125 dps
in icc people do 10k+ 3,125% of 10k is 312.5 so in icc a flask is closer to a 300 dps increase this math does in no way take in all factors and is alot simplified but it should show you that flasks do indeed scale as you gear up and making them a perentual buff to a certain stat would make them bad at entry level and great at high level raiding and also screw up the benefit alchemist get from mixology wich is balanced against the other proffesions.

[Kooshkrusher]

but a much larger real dps gain since a icc geared caster will have more ahste and crit than a naxx geared and thus will gain more dps from that extra spellpower
in naxx people did around 2k dps 6,25% of 2k is 125 so by this very bad and inexact math a flask in naxx gained you 125 dps
in icc people do 10k+ 3,125% of 10k is 312.5 so in icc a flask is closer to a 300 dps increase this math does in no way take in all factors and is alot simplified but it should show you that flasks do indeed scale as you gear up and making them a perentual buff to a certain stat would make them bad at entry level and great at high level raiding and also screw up the benefit alchemist get from mixology wich is balanced against the other proffesions.

3% of spell power =/= 3% of dps

[Fornaw]

Similar to JC recipes, Blizz can simply introduce a new "tier" of flasks

I think this is the best idea in this thread. Flasks certainly do feel less relevant the higher you go, which is a little sad. If they drop an epic flask recipie halfway through Cata it would be a nice change.

One thing I would really like to see scale better would be weapon enchants. Berserking is the most boring weapon enchant to date, stricktly speaking it actually got worse from tier to tier if you are a warrior. Mongoose was awesome because it gave both Agility and Haste. Rune of the fallen crusader is an interesting scaling enchant as well. Somewhere between Berserking and Fallen Crusader would be great.

[Deleted]

Similar to JC recipes, Blizz can simply introduce a new "tier" of flasks

The question is will it make as much profit as herbs? Obviously the higher tier = the more herbs required.

[Deleted]

Scaling would be op for people with a lot of gear, people with less gear would be even more lowered... It would be cool to scale but upside down, I mean, when you have less gear, you get more profit from the flasks (so you are closer to reaching the highly geared players).

[Gron]

They will not introduce scaling potions, that would defeat the reason to create new raid potions next expansion.

[Muhox]

More than that I hope to see some potion-recipes or something like that drop randomly in instances. Like blacksmiths, leatherworkers and tailors why aren't there any nice things for alchemists? This also applies to some other professions like inscription, they should bring something for every main-profession not only a few of them.

[adynn]

Meh, in any serious content progression people are using flasks (or should be), so I don't really see the problem tbh, flasks will still be selling as people still need them. For professions like BS, LW and tailoring, there has to be new recipes each tier due to ilvls increasing, making the old crafted stuff almost obsolete. Are you also going to say that having 2 (non gathering) professions maxed out isn't required in any decent raiding guild? Because they also provide a static buff instead of a percentage increase, yet all good raiders have them.

Also alchemists do get quite a few cool things, not on an engineering level, but compared to most crafting professions they are easily up there. Things like mad alchemist pots and pygmy oil in wotlk.

Also maaghen is right, even if the dps gain numbers were out.

[mstieler]

I'm all for scaling flasks. I play a Feral/Feral Cat/Bear spec, and while Endless Rage seems to be a minor increase, honestly Stoneblood is a drop in the bucket. Unbuffed I'm typically sitting at 40k or so health (yeah yeah, I don't have all my bear gear to ICC25 level or anything; lay off me lol); 1.3k to that is okay, but (and I understand this is essentially just a minor thing for now) the 30% ICC buff sees me hit 60k+ health. 1.3k is nothing to that. But hopefully, +300 to a stat (Agil for Cat, Stam for Bear) will be a good enough boost in midgame/endgame Cata as it would be early-game.

[Donald Hellscream]

so whats the point in using the new flasks in cata if you want the current flasks to scale with gear?

[nitrizzle]

This has to be a troll.

Flasks do scale with gear. It's called having more haste and crit on your gear.

Using sep (str equivalent points) at high levels of gear for a warrior will show that 1 str is equal to about 2.8 dps. At toc levels of gear 1 sep is about 2.2 dps, ulduar 1.9-2 and it keeps dropping.

[henern]

I'm all for scaling flasks. I play a Feral/Feral Cat/Bear spec, and while Endless Rage seems to be a minor increase, honestly Stoneblood is a drop in the bucket. Unbuffed I'm typically sitting at 40k or so health (yeah yeah, I don't have all my bear gear to ICC25 level or anything; lay off me lol); 1.3k to that is okay, but (and I understand this is essentially just a minor thing for now) the 30% ICC buff sees me hit 60k+ health. 1.3k is nothing to that. But hopefully, +300 to a stat (Agil for Cat, Stam for Bear) will be a good enough boost in midgame/endgame Cata as it would be early-game.

The 30% buff scales the flask as well, so instead of 1.3k you gain 1.69k.

[Nemrod]

Why should flasks scale? Every BS, tailor, leatherworker gets new recipies with every tier.

crafted T11 plate chest gives 100 stam
crafted T12 plate chest gives 150 stam
etc...

Where's the problem making a T11 spellpower flask, a T12 spellpower flask, etc...

---------- Post added 2010-08-06 at 07:52 AM ----------

what kind of shitty guild were you in? most were doing 2k dps at 70, stepping into naxx i was between 3.5-4k

Of course you were.