And now for something completely different

[Ildurnest]

Rage Normalization - Crits no longer generate extra rage

Ok... so.. the uber nerf bat wasn't enough apparently, they are going to use the nerf steamroller!

In all seriousness, all these announcements are making me sick in the stomach. Warriors, specially fury warriors (seem) to be completely destroyed in the expansion. From overly complex and frustration-driven resource management, to exotic rotations, scrapped abilities and just pure eye candy (heroic leap), the Fury Warrior we know today will forever be wiped from teh face of azeroth (and draenor).

I'm really disgusted at these changes. I don't think Warrior is so OP that calls for all these nerfs and re-works. Sure, because of a couple bugs and a completely OP Legendary Weapon (blizzard made it, blame yourselves instead of us Warrior eh?) we're doing a bit more damage than expected, but what about the other classes? Fire Mage says helo! Combat Rogue says hi too. The other classes aren't really that far below Fury Warrior, and somehow Blizzard got stuck with the false thought that we are retardedly over power, and we must be stopped.

Really? I mean... really?
Warriors will be laughing matter in cataclysm. We will bring no real buffs, and we will be so overly complicated to play, casual warriors will disappear, "good" Warriors will be "ok" in comparison to other classes and the epic feeling of playing with 2 huge axes and whirling the around for huge damage will be gone.

What's your opinion on all this?

[loki504]

Ok... so.. the uber nerf bat wasn't enough apparently, they are going to use the nerf steamroller!

In all seriousness, all these announcements are making me sick in the stomach. Warriors, specially fury warriors (seem) to be completely destroyed in the expansion. From overly complex and frustration-driven resource management, to exotic rotations, scrapped abilities and just pure eye candy (heroic leap), the Fury Warrior we know today will forever be wiped from teh face of azeroth (and draenor).

I'm really disgusted at these changes. I don't think Warrior is so OP that calls for all these nerfs and re-works. Sure, because of a couple bugs and a completely OP Legendary Weapon (blizzard made it, blame yourselves instead of us Warrior eh?) we're doing a bit more damage than expected, but what about the other classes? Fire Mage says helo! Combat Rogue says hi too. The other classes aren't really that far below Fury Warrior, and somehow Blizzard got stuck with the false thought that we are retardedly over power, and we must be stopped.

Really? I mean... really?
Warriors will be laughing matter in cataclysm. We will bring no real buffs, and we will be so overly complicated to play, casual warriors will disappear, "good" Warriors will be "ok" in comparison to other classes and the epic feeling of playing with 2 huge axes and whirling the around for huge damage will be gone.

What's your opinion on all this?

i will tell you someting completely diffrent.

ITS BETA. how do you know we don't get enough at 85 or even dps!
now stop the nonsence untill its liveand after that you can whine!

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

LIES! THIS IS NOT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

Wait until live to whine about something like this.

[placeholdername]

LIES! THIS IS NOT SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

Wait until live to whine about something like this.

He's right. I. feel. BETRAAAAAYED.

---------- Post added 2010-08-09 at 07:03 AM ----------

To quote the ever-insightful Totalbiscuit,

Beta is beta

Get over it, nothing is certain yet.

[Deleted]

This isn't a nerf if you actually bothered reading past the first sentence.

The solution we're looking at, and I predict a lot you aren't going to like it, is not to have crits provide extra rage. That will let us bump rage income across the board without it getting infinite again at the epic level.

If they were to stop rage being generated from crits they would increase the rage gained from regular attacks to make up for the loss.

[Alianthos]

Nah, totally disagree with you OP.

Rage generation isnt something you can complain about yet. Basically your logic is "Oh my god, they are doing THIS to us ! But it's shitty because currently warrior are like this so it wouldnt work". This logic is 100% flawed. You cant just take cataclysm changes and try to explain them with wotlk model. OF COURSE, rage not coming from crit would suck in WOTLK. But this is Cataclysm, this is a new game, kinda.

Warriors are getting a big ovehaul. And that's for the best. On Live, for endgame warriors, Rage is not a ressource anymore. They may as well grant us 100 rage after 2 seconds of fighting and never go under 90. HS spamming is boring, although I, personnaly, enjoy it.

About the new rotation, etc, I would just wait a bit more until they are done with us. There's a LOT going on about Warriors lately, they arent done yet. Basically our talent tree is drastically changing every week.

Also we need 85 beta warrior to see rage generation / final rotation. Just wait a bit more until more ranting. We're not there yet but we're getting close.

[Condemner]

You know they are changing it constantly to find ways to ballance stuff out right, hence the 'Beta'?

[Fuger]

Nah, totally disagree with you OP.

Rage generation isnt something you can complain about yet. Basically your logic is "Oh my god, they are doing THIS to us ! But it's shitty because currently warrior are like this so it wouldnt work". This logic is 100% flawed. You cant just take cataclysm changes and try to explain them with wotlk model. OF COURSE, rage not coming from crit would suck in WOTLK. But this is Cataclysm, this is a new game, kinda.

Warriors are getting a big ovehaul. And that's for the best. On Live, for endgame warriors, Rage is not a ressource anymore. They may as well grant us 100 rage after 2 seconds of fighting and never go under 90. HS spamming is boring, although I, personnaly, enjoy it.

About the new rotation, etc, I would just wait a bit more until they are done with us. There's a LOT going on about Warriors lately, they arent done yet. Basically our talent tree is drastically changing every week.

Also we need 85 beta warrior to see rage generation / final rotation. Just wait a bit more until more ranting. We're not there yet but we're getting close.

Yeah its not like Hunters where they are basically 96% done. (as far as I can tell)

[Deleted]

Posts like these are just... Sigh...

Exactly how would this mean Warriors become a "laughing matter"? You do realize Blizzard could, and will, easily adjust just how much rage we gain, eventually giving us a regeneration rate making us balanced when compared to other classes.

Even the word "nerf" is just not applicable before an expansion where everything changes. Everything is nerfed, everthing is buffed, new stuff is added and old stuff is cut. They redo stuff.

If, after a patch, Warriors suddenly generated 1 rage per melee attack and nother else, now that would be a nerf, but what Blizzard do now is not.

[tanked]

i keep reading about this so called "normalization" thing. but warriors still scale with gear they say. blues keep saying that warriors rage is basically the same, aside from the heroic strike bug, stat inflation, and crit which they mentioned today.

wtf is this "normalization" crap mean then? how did they make it normal, and what is considered normal. it doesnt seem like they simplified it, they just tweaked the system from what i can tell. any insight on this b/c im getting tired of reading the same crap with every blue post.

[Racetrack]

I agree with the OP.

Losing ArP (The BIG one)
Rage Nerf
Whirlwind Nerf
Talent nerfs (unending fury for example yet keeping the TG penalty)

Then people say "it's only Beta" and yet Blizz say the Warrior tree is one of the furthest along so far.

[lordzed83]

This change can make me re-roll :/. I got bit over 230 played on warrior. And I always liked 2 stack Crit. Maby it is not best dps option but i like to crit and i stac it on all chars i play on and haste on my resto shamy (not geming crit ofc :P).
If crit will be crappy stat for warrior then well i got 3 other chars 2 play in cata.
CRIT FTW !!!! And they want me to start stacking haste with 2x2h ?? Would rather start to stack some crazy amount of hit.

[gringo]

Warriors will be laughing matter in cataclysm. We will bring no real buffs, and we will be so overly complicated to play, casual warriors will disappear, "good" Warriors will be "ok" in comparison to other classes and the epic feeling of playing with 2 huge axes and whirling the around for huge damage will be gone.

The sky is falling. My class is destroyed. ragequit incoming...

seriously? are you that dumb that you actually did not read past the first sentence? or is this a mediocre troll attempt?

Beta is beta, now gtfo -.-

/sigh

[Deleted]

i keep reading about this so called "normalization" thing. but warriors still scale with gear they say. blues keep saying that warriors rage is basically the same, aside from the heroic strike bug, stat inflation, and crit which they mentioned today.

wtf is this "normalization" crap mean then? how did they make it normal, and what is considered normal. it doesnt seem like they simplified it, they just tweaked the system from what i can tell. any insight on this b/c im getting tired of reading the same crap with every blue post.

Rage gained is currently based on how hard your swings hit for, which basically means better gear = more rage, which in turn means first year of an expansion = warriors are too weak and last year of an expansion = warriors are too strong.

Normalization means you get the same amount of rage no matter if you hit for 1000 or 5000. This obviously changes according to weapon speed. Rage still scales with hit, expertise and haste.

In other words; they don't change how much rage we gain, they change how we gain rage.

[Deleted]

damn i was proud of playing a warrior before all these unnecessary posts came up. i know poeple keep saying beta is beta, but guess what there absolutly right. if u whine about things now u shouldnt be allowed to buy cata... ever

[Deleted]

I agree with the OP.

Losing ArP (The BIG one)
Rage Nerf
Whirlwind Nerf
Talent nerfs (unending fury for example yet keeping the TG penalty)

Then people say "it's only Beta" and yet Blizz say the Warrior tree is one of the furthest along so far.

When you said "nerf", did it ever occur to you ArP as a stat was removed and replaced with other stats of the same value? Did you realize Blizzard replaced Whirlwind with Raging Blow, essentially giving us a lot more fun rotation? Talent "nerfs" are just a matter of changing numbers around, what we see now is a preview of the playstyle.

And, when did Blizzard say we'd generate less rage? If anything we'll generate more...

[sleekit]

damn i was proud of playing a warrior before all these unnecessary posts came up. i know poeple keep saying beta is beta, but guess what there absolutly right. if u whine about things now u shouldnt be allowed to buy cata... ever

if they don't "whine" about it now what encourages the developers to further refine the class ?

even tho this isn't the place you are kinda missing the point as to what a beta is actually for if you think people should be quiet and passive during a beta.

the entire point of a public beta period is to facilitate disscussion between the players and the developers and thus refine the final product.

"beta is beta" (as you are using it here) is nothing but a stupidly flug out meme which you are using to implys that no opinion should be offered til the game ships. if that actually came to pass you would have succeeded in making the entire beta process utterly pointless to the detriment of the game.

what "beta is beta" actually means is that everything is subject to change
change instigated by the developers BUT ALSO change instigated by the players...

[Racetrack]

When you said "nerf", did it ever occur to you ArP as a stat was removed and replaced with other stats of the same value? Did you realize Blizzard replaced Whirlwind with Raging Blow, essentially giving us a lot more fun rotation? Talent "nerfs" are just a matter of changing numbers around, what we see now is a preview of the playstyle.

And, when did Blizzard say we'd generate less rage? If anything we'll generate more...

ArP is THE warrior (and Kitty) stat. It was made for classes that do 100% physical damage and scales like no other stat. You think we would be topping the ICC meters if we were stacking Str, Hit, Haste and Crit? Those are Ret stats which is fine because most of their damage isn't physical. They are taking away our best stat and they even admitted the reason was that it was too powerful (despite first saying it was too complicated).

[VincentWolf]

To OP: It does looks exactly like you described at the moment, I agree. I don't like it one slightest bit. As a matter of fact, I'm sick of it also. Fucking. Sick. I think I won't be raiding at all in Cata, just play casually and level couple alts (that's after 3 years of raiding on very high lvl in one of top 500 guilds in the world). But I will still wait for it to go live and give it couple of months to sort things out. But as I said, yeah, looks really really bad so far. Every time I joke about warriors it becomes true. For example, after seeing some nice buffs in patch notes not so long ago I thought "what is it? dps warrior buffs? No way, they gonna delete it soon and nerf us even more than we were before". And that's exactly what they're doing...

[fizikz]

ArP is THE warrior (and Kitty) stat. It was made for classes that do 100% physical damage and scales like no other stat. You think we would be topping the ICC meters if we were stacking Str, Hit, Haste and Crit? Those are Ret stats which is fine because most of their damage isn't physical. They are taking away our best stat and they even admitted the reason was that it was too powerful (despite first saying it was too complicated).

You're right, warriors and kitties will have absolutely no chance at being competitive in cata. We should all start leveling alts now that don't need ARP because ARP disappears and with it any chance at being competitive as a warrior or kitty since no other steps were taken to rebalance those classes without the consideration ARP is no longer a stat.

Damn. :\