Do you think Ret will be fixed in PvP?

[Aildaris]

Do you think that retadins will be fixed in PvP with our current situation on beta?

As most of you probably know, retadins are currently in very bad shape on beta in terms of PvP. We are even worst than where we are on live and currently stand no chance against any semi-competent ranged class.

Gained:
Rebuke (melee-ranged interrupt)

Lost:
Sacred Shield (now holy paladin mastery)
Divine Shield duration (now last 6 seconds, about 20% of how long it use to last)
Magic Dispel
Dispel Resistance
Instant Flash of Lights, making us less efficient than DKs and even warriors at self-healing.
Group utility spells like Divine Guardian (Sacred Shield and the magic dispel mechanic of Cleanse count also)
Stun-removing mechanic of Hand of Freedom

As you can see, that is barely a sufficient spell to gain considering what it cost us. This interrupt is useless for us if we can't even reach the targets it is meant to be used on.

I am doubtful that we will remain like this... but so far blizzard hasn't even acknowledged this current issue as far as I am aware of which makes me concerned...

[Badpaladin]

I think they'll look into it but I'm going to remain skeptical. If I recall GC stated that he knew ret would need more offensive utility if they cut their frontloaded burst down in wotlk, but it never got implemented when the nerfs hit. I guess my point is some people know what to do but it likely won't happen.

[jenseits]

I really want to believe they will fix it, and it does need fixed, unfortunately they really aren't making it seem like they see a problem or will even acknowledge to possibility of one. I just don't get why they won't even so much as comment on the concerns of plds

[Vizardlorde]

Do you think that retadins will be fixed in PvP with our current situation on beta?

As most of you probably know, retadins are currently in very bad shape on beta in terms of PvP. We are even worst than where we are on live and currently stand no chance against any semi-competent ranged class.

Gained:
Rebuke (melee-ranged interrupt)
Decision between burst damage or self heal

Lost:
Sacred Shield (now holy paladin mastery)
Divine Shield duration (now last 8 seconds, about 66.67% of how long it use to last)
Stun removal with Hand of freedom from divine purpose
HoT from healing crits with sheath of light
Magic Dispel
Dispel Resistance
Instant Flash of Lights, making us less efficient than DKs and even warriors at self-healing.
Group utility spells like Divine Guardian (Sacred Shield and the magic dispel mechanic of Cleanse count also)
Stun-removing mechanic of Hand of Freedom

As you can see, that is barely a sufficient spell to gain considering what it cost us. This interrupt is useless for us if we can't even reach the targets it is meant to be used on.

I am doubtful that we will remain like this... but so far blizzard hasn't even acknowledged this current issue as far as I am aware of which makes me concerned...

Fixed... and nope things are looking pretty grim for us, we possess the ability to kill any class with our new burst which is likely going to be nerfed but we will be unable to get a ranged class to our melee range so our burst is pretty much pointless since we have been stripped from all our defensive abilities

[Deleted]

Fixed... and nope things are looking pretty grim for us, we possess the ability to kill any class with our new burst which is likely going to be nerfed but we will be unable to get a ranged class to our melee range so our burst is pretty much pointless since we have been stripped from all our defensive abilities

Wait wait, what burst ? The attack called TV which take around 10sec to set up ? Call this burst ? Lolwut, elemental and destruction would like to have a word with you.

[Vizardlorde]

u can always use zealotry if u manage to get the initial 3 HP , and yea its the only thing close to burst since blizz removed seal of blood/the martyr

[Badpaladin]

I wouldn't call it burst, I'd call it a 9 second ramp up time that's countered by moving(assuming the ret paladin is snared).

[Entaaro]

Now, given this discussion and people's concern, do you think the gap closing mechanic will at least make up for all the things lost, if we were to gain said gap closing mechanic?

[Badpaladin]

Now, given this discussion and people's concern, do you think the gap closing mechanic will at least make up for all the things lost, if we were to gain said gap closing mechanic?

I don't know what pvp is going to be like at 85, but it doesn't look like even the full melee package makes up for the loss of cleanse. Having such a massive ramp-up time simply isn't going to cut it in rated BG's unless flag carries plan on being whacked on for more than 9 seconds at a time. All it takes is one fear from a 'lock or priest and you're back to square one again.

[Mused]

Isn't Holy Shock now a base ability? if so, the loss of instant Flash of Light not that big of a deal?.. I might be wrong, I thought I read that

But, nope things don't look good for ret so far.

[Everafter]

Isn't Holy Shock now a base ability? if so, the loss of instant Flash of Light not that big of a deal?.. I might be wrong, I thought I read that

But, nope things don't look good for ret so far.

It's not.
And no, they don't, we gained interrupt (melee interrupt) and lost much more as seen above. We do not have decisions between burst and self heal. Damage that requires around 9 sec ramp-up is NOT burst.

[Spamor]

Well they do have to tune somethings right again like Reptence back to 10sec in PvP or turn the rest into 6sec only as talents that reduce the duration of cc have been cut or get a cd.
Then they have to balance Snares and Anti-melee utility of Casters back as all the melee classes got nerfs on the side of mobility.
But I wouldn't minde abit more of offensive utility, gapcloser would be wicked

Remember HoF will have a 50% uptime if you cast it only on your self, what most likely they are balancing it around as they aren't balancing the other classes around having HoF. The problem is more Paladins suck against anykind of CC.

[Ronark]

Remember HoF will have a 50% uptime if you cast it only on your self, what most likely they are balancing it around as they aren't balancing the other classes around having HoF. The problem is more Paladins suck against anykind of CC.

It'll have a 50% uptime against a class that cannot dispel- Meaning it is useless against Hunters, Mages, Shaman, Priests, Warlocks.... see the issue here?

[Spamor]

I was hoping that they would increase the manacost of purges etc alot so they wouldn't be spamable. But yes kinda cheese that it's removable :/

[Banzubie]

I was hoping that they would increase the manacost of purges etc alot so they wouldn't be spamable. But yes kinda cheese that it's removable :/

I dont think it would matter how much mana it would cost. If you can fully disable a class without having to use CC, you dont care if it costs 25% of your mana, you use it.

But rets are in dire need of something. You can have all the damage and burst in the world but it doesn't mean anything if you cant even hit the target.

[Deleted]

they are changing the dispell mechanics... i dont know excactly how they will work but i read that they remove spammable dispells for sure! (thats bad for paladin too cause cleanse was the 50% stroke button :P )

[gamgee76]

lol the cheapest class in PVP is complaining, im sorry but for once since bc enjoy the nerfs to a class that is already horribly overpowered in pvp.

[Alcsaar]

As of right now, its going to be pathetic in PvP.

You've noted all the things getting removed, and the one thing they are gaining.

Health pools are going to be MUCH HIGHER, but ret heals aren't going to scale that much, so popping a holy light on yourself for even 15k isnt going to matter, and thats 1/5 of your mana pool gone. We alraedy have mana issues against bubbles because for some reason blizz decided it was alright to make bubbles make JotW ineffective.

[Baracuda]

It'll have a 50% uptime against a class that cannot dispel- Meaning it is useless against Hunters, Mages, Shaman, Priests, Warlocks.... see the issue here?

And prot warrior's shield slam.

OT: Tbh I don't think anyone expect the rets themselves will care if they suck when Cata launch, considering how they faceroll'd everything when LK patch came.
If you don't get fixed on beta, you'll just have to wait a patch or 5 to get fixed, or for the Cata-OP classes to be nerfed =)

[Spamor]

I dont think it would matter how much mana it would cost. If you can fully disable a class without having to use CC, you dont care if it costs 25% of your mana, you use it.

But rets are in dire need of something. You can have all the damage and burst in the world but it doesn't mean anything if you cant even hit the target.

It's not like we have more than 1 magic buff so if they try 4 times there oom, so yes it would matter if it cost alot of mana.