Latest cata build - ret tree disappointment

[Ralinor666]

I believe all this started with the whining on Communion.People stated they wouldn't grab it(cause replenishment for the raid doesn't seem appealing to them...) and asked for the talent to be buffed.We ended up with a buffed communion and 20%haste stripped from us.
On a second thought though,having 2 plate dps providing the same buff might not have been a good idea anyways.
/points at frost dks

this makes me feel like my opinion made a change

[Symz]

Hey man, what gives, where'd the OP vanish to?

[Guyviroth]

I'm upset that my face talent was removed from the, I believe, 125xx build, which, when activated, made your Crusader Strike stack 3 holy power and lasted for 30 secs. Or something like that.

[Hexme]

I'm not sure how Conviction could be considered interesting, it was just a stacking buff...

And most of seal damage was on auto-attacks. Auto attacking isn't exciting either. All that damage has to be shifted to active abilities now and won't hitting a button and getting huge numbers be more fun?

Thing is we are a melee class, we arent the only class that has melee as our number one dmg dealing move.

Rogues (mut at least) will have melee dmg ether in their top end dmg done or 2nd, Hunters will always have auto shot as number one. I for one enjoy looking at decent white crits, reminds me of pre BC when thats what melee normally had was white hits. If you want to blame someone for the ever so "auto attacking" please blame blizzard for our cooldown clashing which paladins even told blizzard but they choosed to ignore paladins as always. Conviction was nice cause it was a nice little buff that made us seperate from other melee classes, not to mention loved the glowy hands effect lol.

[Hrothgrar]

15% run speed has proved to be more than enough in WotLK.

Lol.

[Kennian]

Im indifferent...

i dont like the extra complication though, i realy liked spot healing and keeping my allies alive. ahwell, just a stock DPS now

[Symz]

Im indifferent...

i dont like the extra complication though, i realy liked spot healing and keeping my allies alive. ahwell, just a stock DPS now

Why can't you pick up Selfless Healer and continue to do the same thing you always have?

[Ronark]

Why can't you pick up Selfless Healer and continue to do the same thing you always have?

Wasting Holy Power on a WoG instead of a TV or DS would be like a Warrior spending 50 rage to cast a 15 minute Battle Shout when Horn of Winter and SoE totems are out.

[Deleted]

No, you tard.

Like GC already said, you will make a choice between utility talents - but not DPS talents.

and what he meant was that it is intended for you to not get a dps increase for every single talent you were the first one i the treadh to be unable to grasp that heres a cookie

[Badpaladin]

and what he meant was that it is intended for you to not get a dps increase for every single talent you were the first one i the treadh to be unable to grasp that heres a cookie

How do you know what he meant? From what I can tell, you can easily pick up all primary DPS talents and are forced to choose on utility based on your role in PvP or PvE. The DPS talents are the core of the tree, it's the utility that separates roles as ret(as if there are any right now, but you get the idea).

[Talen]

Why can't you pick up Selfless Healer and continue to do the same thing you always have?

Because WOG uses HP. Rets use HP to power DS, Inquisition and TV.

For SH to be useful, therefore, you need to be in a situation where you need to heal and ally and where healing that ally is a better choice than actually hitting their target. Unlike the current situation, where you would use FoL, you would likely be sacrificing a TV strike and you woudl be unable to use it for 10 or so seconds.

For this to be of benefit, WoG therefore needs to heal enough to keep your ally alive for those 10 seconds. Or allow you both to kill the attacker, with the paladin missing his strongest attack. Or allow you to keep your ally alive while a stronger heal is incoming...whcih requires coordination.

WoG, at present, appears to be a fairly weak heal. Last I checked, it was healing perhaps 10-15% of a targets health (non crit). At L83. Which means it will likely heal for less at L85.

True, values aren't settle yet and we aren't sure of scaling. But at the minute, SH appears to be a talent that allows you to heal a target enough to keep him alive for a few more seconds while depriving you, the Paladin of a big chunk of damage. Which means that if the hostile is close enough to death that you can take him down, its better to do so, and if your ally is close enough to death that this heal is needed, hes likely to die anyway.

There will be times when such an ability is useful. Of course there will. The problem, at the minute, is both trying to guage whether such situations occur oiften enough and whether WoG heals for enough to make the talent worthwhile.

At the minute, my estimate on that is...it won't heal enough to make a major difference and it won't happen often enough to justify it.

EJL

[Lebeau]

Wasting Holy Power on a WoG instead of a TV or DS would be like a Warrior spending 50 rage to cast a 15 minute Battle Shout when Horn of Winter and SoE totems are out.

I'm assuming that you are referring to healing someone else. I really hope you don't mean that you won't ever use WoG on yourself.

Please don't be that guy.

[Ronark]

I'm assuming that you are referring to healing someone else. I really hope you don't mean that you won't ever use WoG on yourself.

Please don't be that guy.

Just in general, dropping Holy Power into WoG is a DPS lost unless used in certain circumstances (i.e. the heal was the difference between saving someone and they dying completely)

[tanked]

i agree, i find myself having to spend around 5 points in crap just to finish out the tree.

[Symz]

Wasting Holy Power on a WoG instead of a TV or DS would be like a Warrior spending 50 rage to cast a 15 minute Battle Shout when Horn of Winter and SoE totems are out.

Thanks, though I understand how the beta game works, and I also understand that WoG in it's current form, for Ret (and almost for all 3 specs) is often undesireable. I was just offering a suggestion to someone who said they like to throw the odd offheal to allies. At this point in time WoG is that replacement since instant FoL is gone from AoW.

I never suggested it was a good way to spend Holy Power.

[Talen]

I'm assuming that you are referring to healing someone else. I really hope you don't mean that you won't ever use WoG on yourself.

Please don't be that guy.

On the contrary, I think Rets will be using it all the time. It makes a wonderful HP sink to reduce down time and to get rid of any HP thats about to expire.

In combat? Its a choice between survival and DPS. Thats a good choice when soloing. In a group wher you have a role? where others are in charge of healing? Not so much.

I never suggested it was a good way to spend Holy Power.

Unfortunately, given the current situation, that does appear to be the case. And that, in turn means all those talents Blizzard is forcing Paladins to take are essentially wasted. There is little point in trying to force hybridism on paladins when Blizzards gone to such lengths to actually remove such options from the game.

EJL

[Deleted]

The poll and my opinion of the OP, are one and the same.

[Symz]

I think what I'm most dissapointed in as far as Ret goes at this point in time in the beta (wish I was in) is Inquisition. Though Ret would hardly ever use Blinding Shield, it felt more exciting to hear about than Inquisition as a new paladin ability. Inquisition at this point still feels clunky, I question how many ppl will attempt to use it in pvp, and I question if we'll see ppl pick up Inquiry of faith for pvp just to make it seem workable.

I've also heard some murmurs of ppl talking about blowing alot of mana while Zealotry is up trying to maximize their number of TV strikes.

They need to make WoG a bit more desireable for Rets to use (or atleast more desireable for us to choose it @ 3 stacks of holy power).

I also feel they could tweak T1 of prot a little for our off tree, or even holy's off tree for that matter.

I'd kill to find out wtf is going on with Seal of Justice. ><

[Lebeau]

I just keep getting the feeling that people in this thread are more focused on their DPS than they are their survival - a mindset that just will not fly in the expansion.

No, Ret Paladins can't heal as well as they can on live (that's intended), but they are still lightyears ahead of Warriors, Shadow Priests, Feral/Balance Druids, Elemental/Enhancement Shaman, and DKs. The new healing enviroment doesn't really (by design) allow anyone to ignore their HP bar just because there's a healer in the group.

Health Potions, Health Stones, Damage Reduction cooldowns, and self heals are coming back into focus in a BIG way for DPS come Cataclysm.

[Elrid]

I know it's beta and everything is still subject to change,

You really should stop there. I remember the massive QQ through the WOTLK beta about Ret pallies, and we turned out fine. Sure, I'm not the top DPS in every PVE raid, but I compete and I do well.

I'm intentionally waiting to draw conclusions until launch.

Keep in mind too, some of the builds they push the beta server are intentionally broken and not playable to the fully intended potential because they are trying to get feedback on specific tweaks they've made.

Don't worry about it.

---------- Post added 2010-08-20 at 11:21 PM ----------

I just keep getting the feeling that people in this thread are more focused on their DPS than they are their survival - a mindset that just will not fly in the expansion.

No, Ret Paladins can't heal as well as they can on live (that's intended), but they are still lightyears ahead of Warriors, Shadow Priests, Feral/Balance Druids, Elemental/Enhancement Shaman, and DKs. The new healing enviroment doesn't really (by design) allow anyone to ignore their HP bar just because theirs a healer in the group.

Health Potions, Health Stones, Damage Reduction cooldowns, and self heals are coming back into focus in a BIG way for DPS come Cataclysm.

No more face rolling! I hope this roots out a lot of the baddies that play this game!