Well since you're so pro and can attain spreadsheet numbers on a regular basis, how about you start stacking tons of haste. You know, since it's valued almost as much as ArP is on the spreadsheet.
Oh wait...
If you ever reached 95% of your simulated dps you would be a god. It's not possible and you just sound full of it. The spreadsheet assumes:
1. You have 0ms latency.
2. You are standing completely still during the encounter, not one step is made.
3. You have every beneficial buff you possibly could have from every class with 100% flawless uptime.
4. You have every possible beneficial DEBUFF you could possibly have with 100% uptime.
5. You never switch targets. Not once.
6. You never get cc'd, never feign death, nada.
I raid as MM. I just thought I would point out your terrible knowledge of the class. Even though you're a moderator, please do not spread misinformation. It's not beneficial to anyone.
(and while you're at it, you can totally prove me wrong by posting your WoL parses showing your 95% spreadsheet dps. Don't forget the spreadsheet doesn't factor in the 30% ICC buff)
EDIT: Just for kicks, I looked over your armory. You're using t10 sanc legs. I think that about proves my point.
Last edited by glo; 2010-08-23 at 12:23 AM.
i7-4770k - GTX 780 Ti - 16GB DDR3 Ripjaws - (2) HyperX 120s / Vertex 3 120
ASRock Extreme3 - Sennheiser Momentums - Xonar DG - EVGA Supernova 650G - Corsair H80i
build pics
Notice how they're gemmed 30 stam and hes also wearing t5. Thats so he can MT bosses in ICC, because its gotten that boring.
Completely relying on the spreadsheet makes you an idiot, but thinking you know better "math" then the SS makes you an idiot.
MM is better than surv and Bm by about 3k dps in bis gear. On movement fights it does close the gap a bit, but not enough to pass MM, since a good hunter will only lose dps from the loss of StS, since you can easily stop moving let auto shot fire and then continue moving.
Last edited by Irony; 2010-08-23 at 12:33 AM.
You can tell WoW changed the MMO for good when players started complaining about the amount of time they sink, into a time sink.
It's actually for soloing old world bosses, I hardly raid on my hunter anymore. I'm doing "progression" on hard mode sindra/LK on my rogue instead. At least there is one difficult fight left.
Regardless, I usually don't log out in my raid gear since I'm not really raiding.
"The forum" (and which I assume you mean EJ) says so because the number support it.
The numbers CLEARLY support it.
If you're not MM you're not doing the max DPS possible. You're not after being the best, you're after some other goal, aka trying to be a different and unique snowflake. You're wrong, and frankly, I don't think we should cater to people who want to be subpar as obviously supported by the numbers.
If you're going to be bad and think you should be coddled for being bad and fighting "the man" while not only outright lying about numbers, but also not understanding what the fucking spreadsheet means (hey, if you need me to use smaller words on the sticky, I will), you shouldn't be citing spreadsheets at all. Lysah is a nice guy but I'm not. Stop trying to call out mods or you're taking a multimonth vacation from this forum. You of all people should not DARE to call out people's gear.
Last edited by ASO; 2010-08-23 at 05:23 AM.
"WoW is a game about upgrading your stuff." - Ghostcrawler
Originally Posted by Cilraaz
The spreadsheet does not assume these things, perhaps you should learn how it works. The spreadsheet typically is set up to assume a five minute fight with zero movement and approximately 35ms latency. It assumes that static class buffs have a 100% uptime, but that buffs that are based on procs have an AVERAGE % uptime, not 100% uptime because some buffs cannot have a 100% uptime.
You should learn how a proper spreadsheet works before flaming people.
Your arguing what spreadsheets tell you when you apparently don't even test it in-game? That's kind of stupid logic. My simulation said i would hit 18k dps as a 5.9k gs feral druid, no way in hell am i hitting that in something like LK or RS. On some fights you HAVE to move, LK between transitions, walking around the laser beams in RS, theres no avoiding that, and thats where survival pulls ahead. If you check worldoflogs, theres about 1000* more marksman then survival hunters on bosses because thats what the spreadsheets say, its just retarded to try to tell people about things when you dont even try them for yourself.
The Mr. Robot simulator thing usually does 100% uptime on most things, just sayin, at least for the needle encrusted scorpion, and it had OOC proc like 5* more than what it actually usually does.
Last edited by Faelz; 2010-08-23 at 05:31 AM.
1. I've never used a Hunter spreadsheet, but I know for a fact both the widely accepted as best spreadsheets for DK's (Kahorie's) and Enh Shaman (EnhSim) can adjust for latency.
2. See above for movement
3. And you don't have flawless uptime with auras? Spreadsheets can turn off/on buffs...
4. See above
5. How many fights with tons of target switching are dps measurements?
6. How many fights with tons of CCing are dps measurements?
I can't think of any remotely smart person that uses a spreadsheet as a gauge for what their damage should be on fights like LK or RS. We're talking about Patchwerk esque fights. FFS people.
That's because Robot is a sim, not a spreadsheet (and a bad one at that).The Mr. Robot simulator thing usually does 100% uptime on most things, just sayin, at least for the needle encrusted scorpion, and it had OOC proc like 5* more than what it actually usually does.
Where did you get the idea that Lysah doesn't test the SS results in game? I just read over what you quoted and either I'm blind or stupid because I'm not seeing anything that could be construed as them saying they don't test the results.
Also of course the SS result of 18k DPS on your druid isn't going to be obtained on LK or in RS but a fight like Patchwerk, Archavon, Ignis, or Deathbringer you could very well be close to that. As already stated earlier the simulator/spreadsheet simulates the best possible scenario meaning minimal, if any, movement; maximum Buff/Debuff uptime; and minimal, if any, Human error and, if I'm not mistaken, many of them can adjust for your network latency(I could be wrong but I know a few simulators that do so I'm assuming a Spreadsheet could too). You just won't get those same numbers but you can get close.
Last edited by Dedweight; 2010-08-23 at 05:47 AM.
Dang you people are gonna make me get arguementative about hunter theorycrafting again. Ok... here goes...
Well since you're so pro and can attain spreadsheet numbers on a regular basis, how about you start stacking tons of haste. You know, since it's valued almost as much as ArP is on the spreadsheet.If you think this, you have never used the correct spreadsheet. RAWR is not worth a dime for hunters. Shandara's spreadsheet values haste WAY WAY below ArP, and can adjust for latency and many other factors.1. You have 0ms latency.
Good hunters can make steps and move while only losing a few steady shots throughout the course of the fight. Moving while Chim/Aimed shot are going off is one strategy, and disengaging/nitroboosting (for the engis) can lower the time required. A good hunter will know where he needs to be when, so he can plan ahead for when to move. The better you are, the closer you get to your spreadsheet DPS as you plan and execute your movement for the least steady downtime possible.2. You are standing completely still during the encounter, not one step is made.
Most of the time in progression raids you WILL have such buffs just about 100% of the time.3. You have every beneficial buff you possibly could have from every class with 100% flawless uptime.
4. You have every possible beneficial DEBUFF you could possibly have with 100% uptime.
Switching targets does lower your dps, and so typically on target switch heavy fights you arent gonna get your spreadsheeted dps, thats obvious, no one is trying to refute that. SV/BM have their issues with target switching as well.5. You never switch targets. Not once.
Again, not trying to refute it. Except for the feign death part, you do realize feign death is not on the GCD right? You can feign without losing dps.6. You never get cc'd, never feign death, nada.
When he said Pros can get 95% of their spreadsheet DPS, he meant on fairly standard fights. Of course your dps is going to go way down on say Deathwhisper or something. But all and all, the numbers support MM being WAY above the other two specs. Surv is not immune to all the DPS loss aspects of fights as people who want to be a special snowflake like to imagine.
Seems to be a running theme lately on these Hunter forums to completely ignore the fact that skill can increase your dps. They simply ignore spreadsheets because they cant get anywhere near the numbers they put up because they are bad players.
Last edited by Vongimi; 2010-08-23 at 06:41 AM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!
My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!
My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn
Off topic, but HILARIOUSLY enough, I got DBW on my rogue the week after I got it on my hunter. On my hunter I was doing my last raid just for kicks, it drops and I'm the 14th person in my guild to finally get it.
Next week, new guild, it drops and no one wants it, I take it in lieu of it being DEd. Also, mute is my offspec, and my CL makes me switch to it for progression, but that still leaves me a lot of time in sub (and 1274 ArP is a great number for me to aim for). I laughed hard at getting DBW my first raid as a mute rogue, and I give permission to all hunters without DBW to hate me now.
Also, VonGimli, I feel like that was exactly what I was trying to say =/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!
My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn
Why be a dps hunter at all?
Inorite? I was thinking about changing mains for awhile but ive been playing my hunter since vanilla, couldnt pull away >.<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!
My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn