raiding in wrathful?

[Cream]

I'd definitely take a full Wrath healer into ICC normal even if it was his first time ever. 2k+ rating in 3s is enough proof of skill for me.

HMs probably only if he's 11/12 normal though. Need at least some experience inside the instance.

extremely well said

[jangkun]

I wear wrathfull bracers on my ret since january and the only stat that pve ones gives are hit and im already hit capped.
my mage started raid with 50% wrath gear. Raiding with some pvp gear is ok, you have less dps than with an equivalent gear (for exemple 264 wrath = 245 pve gear) but still be able to do a great job.
Exception is when you are FULL of pvp gear, nothing pve except weap maybe. dps wont be expertise and hit capped (hit is easy to get with some pvp gear change). Healer wont have all stat they need. But anyway, it's ICC, 30% buff bypass this and you shouldnt worry if the player using pvp know how to play his class.

[Nesingwary-Eliada]

Its really just the principle of it. If your in full wrathful you can take the 3 days required to farm heroics to get tier 9 and ICC 5-man drops, THEN jump into ICC 10/25. Its really not hard and doesn't take long at all to triumph badge gear yourself. Much less effort than it took you to get your full Wrathful.

Basically, as said by many in here, the vast majority of pvp gear just does not have the basic stats required for end game raiding. I'm sorry but it doesn't lol. I'd have no problem taking a fully wrathful geared person to anything T9 and below, hell I wouldn't mind him/her in my VoA runs either. But if I was in a ICC 10/25, I'd kick a fully pvp geared player too, regular or not, buff or not.

1 or 2 pvp pieces here or there is not an issue for me though. Unless they are Deadly Gladiator pieces lol.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind if a guildie was in pvp gear if I knew they can perform amicably despite that fact. But if I was taking a pvp geared player into a pug, I wouldn't count on them being good.

[Orianari]

Personally, I'd rather have full Wrathful than tier 9. I've seen DK's in Furious gear pulling 6k dps in raids.

And for the record, Wrathful depends on what it is. Set pieces are 270, non-set pieces are 264, and weapons are 264/277 depending on the level.

[Sno]

Well look at rawr lists for your class for example:

Wrathful is just under 264 usually, so yeah wrathful >isnt< that bad. And it makes your GS higher sooo its a win win for pugs :P

Get out. Gearscore is worse than doing stuff in pvp gear.

[draticus]

so? because it has resilience instead of crit to go with the haste, or haste to go with the crit, that means it's not good enough? when undergeared can do it in ilvl 200 blues?

WORST ARGUMENT EVER. I hate undergeared because they've given people the impression that just because its possible to kill someone in blues after wiping on them for hours (sometimes days) that pugs should be ok with doing so. The raid can struggle on content like undergeared did OR you can take a few minutes to run EASY icc 5mans and get some heroic gear/frost emblem gear.

What undergeared can do with tons of practice and hours of wiping has NOTHING!!!!! to do with what pugs should aim for.

Can you do it in top end pvp gear? Sure Can you do it better with low end PVE gear? Yes. Is it ok for people to expect you to put a little time into your character before they bring you to their raid? Absolutely!

---------- Post added 2010-09-06 at 02:49 AM ----------

Get out. Gearscore is worse than doing stuff in pvp gear.

Get out. Blind prejudice against addons is worse than doing stuff in pvp gear.

[babuthegreat63]

i'd be willing to bet that he'd put out less HPS with triumph badge gear then he does now. the point isn't if the gear is optimal to raid in, just whether it's good enough to get the content done. if he can do it in his present gear, which took a significant amount of time and effort to get, why should he have to go and invest even more time and effort to get gear from badges and icc 5mans if he can heal through icc good enough to get 251 gear?

[xile]

Honestly in a guild, it probably isn't the best idea but if it's a pug then why not, i've seen people break 12k in full wrathful actually and for a pug group that can sometimes be top dps (sadly : / )

and for the record in most dps sets ive seen a 6.2k gs ish pvp geared dps will outdps the kid in full triumph gear. You're argument is less than valid when you compare the ridiculous difference in dps between t9 and t10/wrathful unless you're comparing upgraded t9/heroic t9

232 pve gear is hardly ever that much better than the 271 equivalent, if it is at all i can check rawr if someone wants hard numbers, especially weapons considered

[wingcommander]

I'm usually a tank, but in 25 mans, a third tank usually goes dps from gunship. I say i have pvp ranged dps and they say ok. I then switched into full pvp all wrathful off pieces,2/5 wrathful with .. wait for it ... a pvp trinket medallion. I fully expect 4-5k dps to be too low for some bosses but the funny thing is, i'm not even last on dps. (above healers and tanks of course).

Nothing wrong with some wrathful pieces until you get better imo. Especially for tanks.

[evan_s]

The problem with PVP gear is the stats wasted on the resilience and extra sta cost you secondary stats like crit, hit, etc. This makes the gear perform worse in PvE than properly itemized PvE gear. Full wrathful is high enough that it should be good enough for starting ICC 10 but you might have some odd stats. At least for a healer you aren't going to have any hit/expertise issues to worry about. I probably wouldn't have a problem with a druid healer but am wary of dps as they may not be hit capped and often aren't able to do good dps in a PvE environment as they aren't used to a proper dps rotation.

Some PVP pieces can be very good. Cloaks are a good example. Outside of raids the best cloak you can get before the frost badge cloak is a 219 cloak from normal ICC 5 mans. Often times a PvP cloak is at least as good if not better until you can get the frost badges for that cloak or a raid drop cloak.

[Shampayne1985]

PVP gear gives a scrub look if your raiding in full PVP gear genuinly you get declined by many PUG's etc: . Just farm TOC - ICC 5 man's and your easily geared enough for ICC 10

Really lol? Why the fuck would you use FAR inferior gear? Damn the wrathful cloaks are even better then anything out of toc25 and for some class better then ICC10 cloaks. I have seen some Holy Paladins in full PVP gear heal up to LK in ICC25 normal perfectly fine.

[DocQuantum]

Hey, another skill > gear/gearscore thread...

PvP gear has resilience, which is a "wasted" stat in PvE. It also has other stats, which are useful. Look at the PvP gear, ignore the resilience: if the other stats are "good enough," the PvP gear is "good enough" to raid in. It's the exact same thing as a healer with a piece of +HIT gear or a boomkin wearing cloth: the gear may very well be better than what the player had access to. Use Rawr, or a spreadsheet, or just crank some itemization on your own: you'll see that a lot of Wrathful PvP gear isn't all that bad.

With that said, someone that raids should probably have access to PvE gear - and the best in slot pieces will be PvE pieces. Someone showing up in a large percentage of PvP gear is suspicious: sure, they can PvP... but can they PvE? And if they can PvE, why don't they have the better PvE gear?

TL;DR. High-end PvE gear > high-end PvP gear for PvE... but high-end PvP gear may be > low-end PvE gear for PvE. Your mileage may vary.

[Asatru]

A resto druid could do it easily.

[Defurious]

I can only give my point of view as a holy pally. I just did a icc25 where i was in my 6100GS Heal Set, and another Holy Pally was in Around 6150+ in full wrathful. When comparing the outputs beetween the two of us, he was doing around 2.5-3k HPS on fights i was doing 6k+ on. The stats just plainly are not there for great output in raid situations, due to mana regen mostly, and haste. Sure you have a ton of SP, but not efficent. I know that it is similar with other classes for healers as well, where you are not fail, but are not especially strong. You just wont be carrying the raid, but more of a supplement healer

[Koen]

I would take the guy any day if he is capable of playing properly, which he probably is. Besides that, I am in full furious on my warlock at the moment and I am doing 8k dps as affliction PvE specced as OS, though. I am often in the top 8 of dps in 25 man and always in the top 3 for 10 man.

It does make me wonder though, what the fuck are those other people doing in T10 with their ~6/7k dps.

Either way, I would take people in PvP gear as it does not show the skill of the person behind the character.

[Torne]

It´s fine as long as it increases your Gearscore.

[Sarrior]

It´s fine as long as it increases your Gearscore.

get the hell out of there with your GS

back to topic, Skill > gear, so if you can do it in wrathful, you can.

[Torne]

get the hell out of there with your GS

back to topic, Skill > gear, so if you can do it in wrathful, you can.

I see you are unfamiliar with irony.

[draticus]

get the hell out of there with your GS

back to topic, Skill > gear, so if you can do it in wrathful, you can.

I was with a group that did some ICC in blues. Does that mean I can come in blues to your run? We wiped 4 hours on one boss. You're cool with that though right? Cause skill > gear?