The apparent Horde and Alliance Inner Strife

[shadow121292]

The splits are kinda easy to think about now

Orcs-Troll-Tauren Horde
Human-Dwarven-Worgen Alliance
Goblins
Gnomes
Forsaken
Blood Elves-Dreanei-possibly Tauren Alliance of Light
Night Elves-otherwise Tauren-and also possibly Worgen Cenarion Circle

The Human and Dwarf close relations will never dissipate they are too developed and ancient that little diplomatic flabs wouldn't be able to ruin it. Its like the US-UK relations. Despite the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, Caroline Affair, and other minor 19th century events we are still as close as brothers.

Orcs and Trolls are in a similar situation. Vol'jin may disagree with Garrosh but we know that while he will not leave the Horde because Thrall asked him to trust in Garrosh at the same time he knows that if the whole war falls apart and if Garrosh goes evil Vol'jin will eliminate him and take the Horde over.

Gnomes are a picky they might remain with the Humans and Dwarves but at the same time the Gnomes did move out of IF because the regaining of their home and the Council of Three Hammers was complicating relations with the Dwarves.

Forsaken are an easy and obviously on their own

Dreanei and Blood Elves are currently the closest cross faction relationship that exists in WoW right now. The BE are indebted to Velen and his people so much it aint funny. The BE also seem to be focused and set upon changing their society from a magical one to a Naaru Holy Light one and that is why I have them classified as an alliance. The Tauren are tagged on because of their new Sunwalkers and a probable growing relations with the BE. While yes the Sunwalkers are not a majority nor are they shaping the politics like the Blood Knights are they are starting new ground and their ties to the light would set up more warmer relations then how the two started off.

Worgen and Tauren have multiple places they can end up. I already explained the Tauren in the BE-Dreanei alliance as for the NE one its obvious that their relation with them is similar to the BE-Dreanei only I feel the former relations are warmer then the NE-Tauren. At the same time though they could easily form a union with the NE based on the ideals of the Cenarion Circle. At the same time relations with the Horde are also very warm and so its possible they would never leave. As for the Worgen their close ties to their Human relatives is pure reason for why they might stick with Stormwind. otherwise we all know that the developments with Gilneas and Darnasus are reason enough for their union with the NE.

[igtenos]

I think the alliance is fine. The problem with the dwarves is a concern, but like other have said their ties to Stormwind are too strong for a bit of turmoil to really interfere.

The Horde, though, are the ones that are really in trouble. While the core of the Horde, in spite of issues with Garrosh, is sound -- the orcs, trolls, and tauren -- the rest are questionable. The Blood Elves have ties with the High Elves and I could see them, eventually, trying to patch things up with the alliance. The Goblins are mercenaries at best -- they will split if things get ugly. And the Forsaken.... we'll they're a mess. What's the going odds on Sylvanas becoming a raid boss?

[Aurabolt]

Unlike other people who make threads like this and then vanish, I'll follow up =D

I'm speaking for myself but I don't really hate Garrosh per se. I'm just glad there's cross-faction war's finally been declared lorewise. I kinda saw it coming when I started reading the WoW Comics concerning Varian. When he was formally introduced to WoW and Garrosh came to Azaroth, a confrontation was inevitible.

Thrall's departure and Bolvar's deaths, though tragic were necessary for this to happen. Thrall and Bolvar would advocate peace between the Allianca and Horde. Varian Wrynn, due to what happened to him both during the Second War (he saw his father murdered by Garona) and his own misadventure where he meets Broll and Valeera; Garrosh Hellscream, who until Thrall spoke to him in Nagrand was unaware his father Grom redeened the Warsong Clan by killing Mannoroth. Then he comes to Azaroth, leads the Horde in their campaign against The Scourge and becomes the new Warchief so Thrall can go off and save the world. He believes Kalimdor should belong to the Horde and considers the Alliance beneath him.

...War between the Alliance and the Horde...I'd like an expansion that's all PvP personally XD

I remember hearing there had been some debate during Vanilla Alpha as to weather the Night Elves would be part of the Alliance or if they woould just be their own third faction. Mostly due to lore or somet thing like that but in the end, they're Alliance.

We've since learned the Night Elves are ultimately responsible for introducing us to three races: The Sindorei (a faction of Highborne fled the northeasten Eastern Kingdoms during the First War by ship. The leader's last name was Sunstrider), the Draenei (they were the first to welcome them into the Alliance) and of course, the Worgen. The Worgen are probably not as old as the Night Elves but one of them did befirend and command them using the Scythe of Elune. We know whoever controls the Scythe of Elune commands the Worgen, which would explain how Arugal took interest in it and was later raised from death over it.

...I can see it being unobtainable like Frostmourne and The Ashbringer XD

The Tauren and Blood Elves are the two Horde races that could probably survive on their own in the long term if need be but if the Forsaken do in fact go rogue...Light have mercy of them. The Trolls have their own place but I still think they'd need from the Orcs, as do the Goblins who've moved in next door.

SW, Gileas and IF basically need the other to survive but the other Alliance factions could definitely survive on their own.

[Bytes]

Gilneas is still free and it's own nation, the Forsaken get kicked out TWICE, they can't even get past the Greymane Wall's gate.

[Sarog]

Overall: I could see the Horde break into subfactions--The Orcs, Trolls and Goblins as one faction and the Forsaken, Tauren and Blood Elves as the other.

lol... seriously? You can't be serious, surely?

[Haven]

Gilneas is still free and it's own nation, the Forsaken get kicked out TWICE, they can't even get past the Greymane Wall's gate.

Ghostcrawler thinks otherwise.

You see it in Gilneas, if you go back and visit Gilneas - not as a low-level worgen - the place is ruined and being taken over by the Forsaken.

[Keristrasza]

Even though its most likely never going to happen, I think it would be interesting of some of the current races changed factions. With this basic tidal wave in their standing within their current faction, it would be interesting to see how blizzard could work it into game. Naturally to be fair to people they could open a week of free race changes should a persons current race be effected by the change in faction.

[shadow121292]

Lets try to avoid turning another thread into Horde vs. Alliance thread. The whole design of this is if the political turmoils that seem to successfully split the Horde and Alliance up who would ally up with who, why, and what could be the political, military and possibly even economic repercussions of it.

Continuing what i had posted before. Militarily I can rate each nation as such if we go with unions such as the Worgen-Ne-Tauren.

1. Human-Dwarf: Reason? The Humans are the largest military force on Azeroth and are known for their resolute and morale despite the odds against them adding in the Dwarves placing a powerful and large army at your hands since the Dwarves are the third largest race.
2. Orc-Troll: Reason? Its been stated that the Orcs and Trolls have the strengths of 2 humans at least which allows for a powerful army their drawback is MUCH smaller numbers then the Alliance. Their numbers together don't even equal the Dwarven population.
3. Forsaken: Reason? Deadly weapons, now a never-ending population the Forsaken have every generals dream pros. Their con? The lack of allies and use of very immoral weapons and spells would make instant enemies who together could easily eliminate them.
4. Blood Elves-Dreanei: Reason? BE consist of the Second largest race on Azeroth and have the most powerful Mages and with the Dreanei also have the most powerful Paladins. Their armies would be able to stretch thin like the Alliance however the lack of a substantial Dreanei population weakens the military substantially along with the fact that much of Quel'Thalas' army was destroyed with Arthas' attack forcing much of the untrained 300,000 population into the army.
5. Night Elf-Worgen-Tauren: Reason? All three are extremely powerful races but they at the same time have many cons. For the Tauren and Worgen its simple extremely small populations that would number only in the tens of thousands. That combined with the fact that the Worgen are a civilized society results in much of Worgen society being more designed to labor then war. The NE are the fourth largest race in Azeroth allowing for some gains in their small military however their combined numbers still would not equal the sheer numbers or strength the previous combined armies could create.
6. Goblins: Reason? Larger population then the Gnomes allows for a more powerful army however their technology which can be unreliable allows for the possibility of a Gnomish victory
7. Gnomes: Reason? Gnomes only have a population of 6,000 the smallest of them all excluding the Dreanei meaning their army would have to rely primarily on technology and robots since their civilization is not a warrior based society with most of their citizens being designed for labor not war.

[Bytes]

Ghostcrawler thinks otherwise.

The Horde quests in Silverpine say otherwise.

[shadow121292]

Gilneas is a draw otherwise there would be no BG about it. The Forsaken have nowhere near the territory they held at the middle part of the Worgen questing at the same time though the Worgen have lost territory to the Forsaken and the forces of nature. The only difference now from what it used to be is in the past the Forsaken at one point held all the territory up until Gilneas City which would in effect give them almost 60% of the country instead it seems since the Battle for Gilneas has changed the reverse is now in effect where the Worgen have the majority control and the Forsaken are holding onto little holdings along the north.

But again this is not about whose doing better then the other.

[Solid Snake]

Neither side has it, I guess that's why it's going to be a battleground.

Actually you all are bloody wrong. Gilneas City is no longer a battleground. The BG has been moved to the coastline. And Haven, I believe that quote is extremely old. If not, then Ghostcrawler needs to get his shit right. Because as of now the Seventh Legion has stomped the Forsaken out of 90% of Gilneas allowing Crowley to attack Silverpine. As of the end of Silverpine, due to Slyvannus being a cowardly bitch, things are back to square-one. Meaning Silverpine is Forsaken, and Gilneas is Gilnean.

[Aurabolt]

I don't recall saying any races were gonna switch factions. In fact, I said this was probably NEVER going to happen. In fact, that was the FIRST thing I said:

t's got me thinking: What if they were to split up? Sure each race will prolly still refer to themselves as being Horde/Alliance but not part of the collective Horde/Alliance. I got to thinking this after seeing the new intros.

Now since I was misunderstood now I have to give you a wall o' text--

The races of each faction would go off and do their own thing but they'd still be in the Alliance/Horde. I don't think I could've overstated it any more than that without overtly professing my preferred faction, which happens to be Alliance. Historically, the Alliance is newer than the Horde. The Horde started in Outland/Draenor even though they became the Horde of today after the Second War. They became the Horde of today when Thrall and Grom led the Orcs and their Troll allies to Kalimdor where they met the Tauren. The Orcs found Orgrimmar as the capital city of the Horde. After the Third War the Forsaken joined the Horde and when the Dark Portal reopened, the Blood Elves joined the Horde through Sylvanas. Sometime later, the Goblins of Kezan were welcomed into the Horde after helping now former Warchief Thrall.

The Grand Alliance was formed during the Second War and almost didn't survive both because the war but also because of internal politics--Varian and Terenas fell out of grace with King Greymane and the seat of power in Arathor and at the time only the Bronzebeard Dwarves allied with Human Kingdoms (Lordaeron, Arathor and Stormwind). Gilneas sealed itself off from the outside world after the Second War and the Night Elves joined the Alliance shortly after the Third War. With Loredaeron and Arathor lost, Stormwind City becomes the capital city of the Alliance. The arrival of the Draenei signals the reopening of the Dark Portal and this time, the races of Azaroth take the fight to the Burning Legion in Outland.After the Fall of the Lich King, Gilneas rejoins the Alliance.

[Deleted]

The Grand Alliance was formed during the Second War and almost didn't survive both because the war but also because of internal politics--Varian and Terenas fell out of grace with King Greymane and the seat of power in Arathor and at the time only the Bronzebeard Dwarves allied with Human Kingdoms (Lordaeron, Arathor and Stormwind). Gilneas sealed itself off from the outside world after the Second War and the Night Elves joined the Alliance shortly after the Third War. With Loredaeron and Arathor lost, Stormwind City becomes the capital city of the Alliance. The arrival of the Draenei signals the reopening of the Dark Portal and this time, the races of Azaroth take the fight to the Burning Legion in Outland.After the Fall of the Lich King, Gilneas rejoins the Alliance.

Correction, the Grand Alliance was formed after the Third War. The Alliance you are referring to is the Alliance of Lordaeron.

[shadow121292]

Correction, the Grand Alliance was formed after the Third War. The Alliance you are referring to is the Alliance of Lordaeron.

Its a standard confusion that one would assume the two are the same thing since considering the Grand Alliance is the spiritual successor of the Alliance of Lordearon. It does seem though that it is used by some people to justify Alliance actions towards the Horde and create claims the Grand Alliance does not have.(Like Lordearon, the Blood Elves, etc.) or remove claims for characters that did have an influence like Jaina creating the Grand Alliance in the first place.

[Deleted]

Its a standard confusion that one would assume the two are the same thing since considering the Grand Alliance is the spiritual successor of the Alliance of Lordearon. It does seem though that it is used by some people to justify Alliance actions towards the Horde and create claims the Grand Alliance does not have.(Like Lordearon, the Blood Elves, etc.) or remove claims for characters that did have an influence like Jaina creating the Grand Alliance in the first place.

Pretty much.

[Skorpionss]

what is this, I don't even...

[Deleted]

It's folly to say the Alliance isn't the same as the Grand Alliance of Lordaeron. It got the same members with aditional allies.

The Original Alliance of the second war by name of the current nation/city:
Stormwind
Lordaeron
Dalaran
Gilneas
Alterac
Stromgarde
Kul Tiras
Ironforge
Aerie Peak
Gnomeregan
Quel'thalas


Of these all or atleast remnants of them are still Alliance members:
Stormwind - The might of the current Alliance
Lordaeron - the humans of Jaina's expedition to Kalimdor were mostly Lordaeron Humans. Theramore has many lordaeron survivors. Hillsbrad and similiar areas once had, but most of the survivors has become Worgen.
Stormwind also has a minority of lordaeron humans.
Dalaran - Though neutral in Wrath, many of them are stout supporters of the Alliance and have even part ways with their countrymen due to them accepting The Horde and fel corrupted elves.
Gilneas - Has returned to the Alliance in the form of the Worgen and the still Human refugees.
Alterac - These are a question mark though I wouldn't count them as they betrayed the Alliance back in the second war.
Stromgarde - Though a shattered kingdom, their people still fight for the Alliance. Remains as one of few nations who prevails against the new Scourge(Forsaken).
Kul tiras - Still members of the Alliance though mostly unseen in WoW.
Ironforge - The backbone of the Alliance. There would be no Alliance if not for the brave dwarves to support Humanity.
Aerie Peak - With cataclysm they've once again joined their former Allies in battle against the Horde and other dark forces.
Gnomeregan - Standing firm with fierce ingenuity besides their cousins and allies.
Quel'thalas - The few proud High elven survivors of a fallen kingdom and a people brought to the brink of extinction. They will remain in the Alliance untill the end of their days.

The Grand Alliance still remains with all their claims.

[edw]

The Forsaken need, very badly, a champion of their "own kind". Putress is the only named forsaken that really comes to mind atm. 1 Possibility is the fellow with 2 doggies at eastern kingdoms in his own house there, who has the title "Champion of Sylvanas". Every other race seems to have named heroes that are big parts of lore 1 way or another, even blood elves seem to be getting Lorthermar Theron fellow taking up his responsibilities as a successor to Kael´thas Sunstrider. Baine is known from Warcraft 3 campaign, Orc´s have bunch of "war heroes" and such, Trolls got Voljin, Goblins got their greedy spidertank riding leader Gallywix, but representing the forsaken we have a blood elf banshee/ranger. Blizz has been too keen in killing old lore characters while not creating new ones, which gives the feeling that the warcraft series is getting to an end. Warcraft movie might be a savior for that, but its been frozen for too long.

The guy with the 2 dogs is Nathanos Blightcaller, a very powerful dude, but he is part of a quest for the alliance to kill him so he is pretty much dead. Maby blizz will come with a story on how he survived the number of ppl killing him for 3 years straight.

[Brittany]

I think you are looking too far into it really. Dwarven politics asides, the alliance are strong.

There are tensions in the horde, but this is due to the new warchief. As far as I am aware the Tauren's blame the Grimtotems (is that right?) for the death of Cairne and not Garrosh. I think Garrosh is going to become strong over the expansion and unite the horde.

Personally, I think they will end up stronger than ever. All factions just seem to have one or two of their own problems to deal with independent of the alliance/the horde right now.

[Deleted]

Actually you all are bloody wrong. Gilneas City is no longer a battleground. The BG has been moved to the coastline. And Haven, I believe that quote is extremely old. If not, then Ghostcrawler needs to get his shit right. Because as of now the Seventh Legion has stomped the Forsaken out of 90% of Gilneas allowing Crowley to attack Silverpine. As of the end of Silverpine, due to Slyvannus being a cowardly bitch, things are back to square-one. Meaning Silverpine is Forsaken, and Gilneas is Gilnean.

Sylvanas being cowardly? I think she forces Crowley to surrender as she even says that theres no point of fighting as the worgens have practically lost and as a final nail in the coffin for the worgens surrender she uses his daughter as a bargaining chip thats not cowardly, you need to sort your shit out.