Why so many changes like my paladin!

[adambwilson]

Hello fellow bubblites,

I have been coming to the site daily for over 3 years now, and i haven't made an account until today. I'm really concerned about what I am reading from beta. The paladin updates don't even make since to me. I recognize almost none of the spells, and they are even changing all of our coefficients around. I understand this isn't the first time we have underwent a major overhaul. But, this is something completely different then in BC and vanilla. Reading these changes makes me think of an entirely new class all together, and I don't like that.

What is it that makes blizzard think that everyone wants to be a priest, rogue or warrior tank. Are people rolling these classes over any other? That certainly isn't true on my server. Then why homogenize all of the existing classes with those tool kits? I don't care that when I heal I can't heal the entire raid at once. I enjoy my, "I just saved your ass", quick heals. And when I tank, I don't care if I don't have the most threat gen on a boss fight, because I can use my utility to ease the damage of the MT and hold adds better then any other class. And when I smash faces as ret, I like that I can 2 and 3 shot a clothie, but if I don't I have to wait 30 sec to do it again. These things make me plan out what I will do and think ahead. The results don't show up on meters but in the success of my group or bg or arena.

What I see in these changes is an over-complication of the paladin class. To many people are rolling Pally so they want to make us harder to play, and thats fair. But why change your philosophy on our class just when you started to get it right?

I know this post won't change a damn thing and probably wont get read by many, but thats how I feel.

For the Light,
Captamerica-Uldaman US

[ShockASU]

homogenization of all classes. Only explanation

[Nikoll]

The homoginization isn't what is wrong with the new paladin models.

[Mmrdkm]

The homoginization isn't what is wrong with the new paladin models.

agreed the problem is that everyone else is getting our tools, new utility spells, and we get the nerf bat, plus a lot of RNG which according to blizz equals skillz. Not exactly what we could call a succesful re design. go ahead check the cata stickies. All in all Holy is the one that has received the most attention, ret... has been turned into a casino, and prot well... lets say that clunky is an understatement compared to live

[zcks]

This ^.

If each of the 3 specs had a few (2-3 short CD) spells/abilities that guaranteed a charge of holy power when used they might be ok but as is our resources, damage & healing for all 3 specs is entirely dependent on random luck especially so for retribution which has 5 RNG procs to watch for (even though they took execute proc out of arms tree because their 2-3 procs were to many)

There is also the problem that between all this RNG holy power generation, having to keep up inquisition (like rouges do slice & dice), regular holy power generation through 1 ability & art of war procs that the spec just feels slunky at best.

There is also the problem with inquisition being on a much shorter duration then slice & dice yet we generate holy power for keeping it up at a much slower rate then rouges do combo points even when we get lucky RNG holy power charges.

If they made this change so we had a few/several short Cd spells that charged holy power up then they could have a proc that gave extra holy power when certain conditions were met (IE critical strikes or RNG) as well as procs like art of war that allowed the use of spells we could not normally use.

---------- Post added 2010-09-11 at 01:27 PM ----------

Oh I also forgot to mention, at the moment on beta rouges, death knigts, & warriors all have better self healing/survivability then we do while at the same time they also have better offensive utility (warriors also get this survivability/self healing passively) & it looks like Blizzard has no intention of changing this.

[Deleted]

Right so Mages and BM hunters bring Bloodlust/Heroism and what do Paladins bring:

Kings (Nerfed) & Might/Wisdom (Nerfed)... Divine guardian removed from reach of holy, aura mastery removed from reach or ret... What happened to Swift Retribution?

For a utility class i wonder what utility do we bring?

[Ronark]

Right so Mages and BM hunters bring Bloodlust/Heroism and what do Paladins bring:

Kings (Nerfed) & Might/Wisdom (Nerfed)... Divine guardian removed from reach of holy, aura mastery removed from reach or ret... What happened to Swift Retribution?

For a utility class i wonder what utility do we bring?

Hand of Sacrifice and Hand of Salvation.
Replenishment
3% damage boost.

No buff is exclusive anymore- there are at least 2 of each buff.

[Deleted]

^ hmm suppose you are right. Ah well lets just hope the numbers pan out.

[Ronark]

^ hmm suppose you are right. Ah well lets just hope the numbers pan out.

You could look at it this way also- If you normally dont have enough Paladins to run with 10% kings, you will be penalized less in this scenario. The same applies if you lack Shaman.

[Deleted]

You could look at it this way also- If you normally dont have enough Paladins to run with 10% kings, you will be penalized less in this scenario. The same applies if you lack Shaman.

Actually yes that makes sense. Well to be blunt as long as ret gets the goods for pve and PVP i will be very happy with this expansion.

[Turthias]

It seems like Paladin has always been one of those classes that are harder to balance out, especially since we can do it all. Not only can we do it all, but then we have all those people claiming we're too good, a dumb faceroll class. So Blizzard seems pressed to give us some more to worry about, like a dumb number of RNG procs to watch. Also I believe Blizzard is trying to avoid the Divine Storm domination issue that crept up when patch 3.0 came out. Cannot blame them for that, as they're trying to avoid the whining that comes from an army of ret Paladins in a BG. But the issue to us then is that our numbers are probably gonna be made low as a result of this caution.

[smoomin]

ofcourse ret paladins and ench shamans have always been reasonably difficult to balance while still making them challenging and not cooldown based , i mean i personally hope we are slightly under powered , nothing is worse than being that OP class in the pre expansion patch and then everyone decides that class will be their main in the next expansion due to it being so good , and we have a few months of an abundance of that class.

*cough*

[zcks]

Hand of Sacrifice and Hand of Salvation.
Replenishment
3% damage boost.

No buff is exclusive anymore- there are at least 2 of each buff.

That reminds me, did they ever say why they were taking out the +20% melee haste version of swift retribution? Last I saw they gave it to survival hunters which is kind of stupid as they are a ranged class & thus gain no benefit from their own buffs.

[Deleted]

i don't see why u are all so angry about blizz adding the holy power system. Yes there it has the "random" factor in it like everything els does in this game!

Crit chance? i see no one complaining about why we are not critting all the time?
parry/block/dodge all things we have a chance to do.

All procs from trinkets and oh yeah our "art of war".

So we get one more, damm, and u fail to see that it will bring the factor of us having to be awake while dps'ing insted of our so exciting rotation right now, if u can call it a rotation...

[Tyberes]

hey man, holy power COULD always stack on the target and not the paladin.

on topic, i do agree with the OPs statement to a degree. i personally think while every spec should be able to anything required of it (raid healing with holy is the biggest for you guys) the various classes should have things they do have an edge in.

on the other side i do kinda get the feeling (and blizzard does aswell) people are rolling the sub role (tank/raid healer) (boss/add tank) as much as they're rolling for the play style. which is something blizzard doesn't want, they really want to push the fact that your going for the play style above any and everything else, which is a design choice i understand.

[Ronark]

hey man, holy power COULD always stack on the target and not the paladin.

It does- It is called "Seal of Truth".

[NotValidAnymore]

It seems like they're making Holy a bit more fun to play. That makes me satisfied, at least.

Could have done fine without the pet, though.

[Ronark]

It seems like they're making Holy a bit more fun to play. That makes me satisfied, at least.

Could have done fine without the pet, though.

Its not a true "pet"- Its more of a utility cooldown.

Currently, it is only a Guardian for Ret (i.e. the effects for Prot and Holy could have been built in).

[Deleted]

i don't see why u are all so angry about blizz adding the holy power system. Yes there it has the "random" factor in it like everything els does in this game!

Crit chance? i see no one complaining about why we are not critting all the time?
parry/block/dodge all things we have a chance to do.

All procs from trinkets and oh yeah our "art of war".

So we get one more, damm, and u fail to see that it will bring the factor of us having to be awake while dps'ing insted of our so exciting rotation right now, if u can call it a rotation...

I love holy power idea, i am just uncertain as to which direction paladins are headed.

[Lumidar]

even hunters pet now give out these buffs too. if you saw the hunter update on main page.