Garrosh Hellscream, A Personality for Every Expansion?

[Redwind]

I see alot of people on these forums that make the mistake of saying Garrosh Hellscream is a poorly written character, he undergoes complete personality changes every expansion etc... and Although it's not true at all, it's a very wide spread belief on these forums, so in an attempt to clear this up, I'm writing this to show Garrosh Maturing, or, what many people like to call, "personality changes".

Pre-BC:

Alright, so first we will look at Garrosh before we ever encounter him, right after the second war when the Alliance Expedition is trying to stop Ner'Zhul From entering other worlds. Garrosh Hellscream was a mere child here, not in charge of anything yet, and suffering from the Red Pox. Kargath Bladefist Enters Garadar and Demands reinforcements to fight off the Alliance Expedition, Greatmother Geyah, the Orc Matron in charge of Garadar, told him no, utterly disgusted at what the Horde had done. It is then that Garrosh asks Kargath about his dad, Grom, and also asks to fight alongside him, at first Kargath ignores him, and then Kargath proceeds to call the Mag'har Weaklings, and not Orcs anymore. This places the idea in Garrosh's Head that he and the rest of the Mag'har are somehow less than other orcs, keep this in mind because we'll adress it later. Later on, Garrosh asks Geyah about Grom and she tells him that Grom was a monster, and that he Damned the Orcish Race.

The Burning Crusade:

Now when we see Garrosh in game for the first time, his depression has gotten worse, and he's now one of the important chiefs among the Mag'har, and we also see that the Mag'har are under attack by the ogres, and also, that Greatmother Geyah has fallen extremely ill. Now we see Garrosh doing nothing about this, and this isn't because he doesn't know what to do, but rather, he's afraid to do it. I say this, because the Garrosh we see in Nagrand is the SAME Garrosh we see in Warsong Hold. Only while in Nagrand, Garrosh isn't doing anything, and although he wants to go send in the mag'har to crush the ogres, he doesn't because he knows it's something Grom would've done, and therefore makes it the wrong thing to do. This is why he hasn't done anything, because he always notices the similarities between his actions and Grom's actions, and that makes it wrong, atleast in his eyes. On top of all of that His depression has gotten worse because he knows Greatmother Geyah is close to death and he realizes that once she's gone he will have to lead his people, and he feels unfit for the job because he's terrified of messing up and hurting his people, like his father did. Fortunately, when to Garrosh, all seems lost, Thrall arrives and after his conversation with Greatmother Geyah, he speaks to Garrosh and tells him that his father was a hero and saved the orcish race. Unfortunately he makes one mistake there, he completely glossed over all of Grom's faults and didn't tell Garrosh things like, how Grom Battled the blood curse, and how Grom didn't give in to his bloodlust but rather, controlled it and honed it into a weapon. so we now see Garrosh Embrace being a Hellscream and also embrace the Bloodlust he feels.

Wrath Of The Lich King:

Fast forward to Warsong Hold, All of Garrosh's actions right now, have shown him to be impulsive, hotheaded, and reckless, and right now this is true, for two reason. The first is that he is letting his bloodlust and rage control him, instead of Controlling it, like Grom did, and also because he's trying to live up to the expectations of the Horde, to be a true orc (Remember what Kargath said about the Mag'har) because so far he's heard tales of war and glory about the horde, so he's just trying to follow what he believes the Horde to be. Unfortunately, Thrall made another mistake, he made him commander of the Warsong expedition, when so far, Garrosh doesn't have any experience at leading ANYTHING. So we see Garrosh put in this position, and he pretty much has to learn on the job. Now the reason we don't see him learning faster than he does, is because his brutal tactics have either worked or Saurfang cleaned up the mess, fortunately Garrosh does learn how to lead armies at the end of the campaign against the Lich King. Now let's go to his Dialogue with Saurfang, Basically you have Saurfang, who knows the, what he feels to be atrocities, that the Old Horde Commited, and Garrosh who has heard about the Horde being this bloodthirsty, vicious, yet honorable War Machine. So we see these two conflicting ideas, the one held by Thrall and some of the older veterans, and the one held by Garrosh and some of the Younger orcs of the Horde. This dialogue leads players to view Garrosh as a Bloodthirsty, Child Murdering, Lunatic, And while nothing comes out of the dialogue at the beginning, most likely because Garrosh sees Saurfang as an old fool, he ponders his conversation with the venerable orc, throughout Northrend, and it is at the Very end, that we see these wise words sink in. So in Icecrown Citadel, once Garrosh recognizes the wisdom Saurfang has to offer, takes these words to heart: "Honor, no matter how dire the battle, NEVER forsake it."

Cataclysm:

This is where we see Garrosh when he has not only matured, but actually learned about the horde while in Northrend, instead of assuming that it was some vicious war machine. And although Garrosh is still unwilling to think about peace with the alliance (Who since the return of Wrynn, interestingly enough the ONLY alliance Garrosh has ever seen, have proven to be nothing but a threat to the Horde) yet honorable and competant enough, for Thrall to choose him to be Warchief. Thrall does this because he has seen that Garrosh has Grown alot since they first met, and that he is the Orc his people want, yet honorable enough to lead with wisdom.

So there you have it, The Path that Garrosh Hellscream took to reach maturity.

Speculation backed with facts, it's good to actually see people back up their arguments, especially concerning Garrosh.

[Deleted]

Enough. This thread has been reported already.

u reported this cause u dont like it? lets roll a pole, and if ppl dont like u, we ban u then...
troll's....what r u going to do


OT...y i agree with the rest, its time to let this garrosh thing go away with the wind! the text is good but...

[Togarox]

Why report a thread, that does nothing but encourage people to think about what has happened off the screen of WoW, instead of just jumping on the "well every time I see him he's different so he must be a poorly written character" band wagon

I honestly think they should get rid of the report function. It used to be there so that people could help the mods by reporting threads that broke forum rules. Now people are taking advantage of it and reporting threads just because they disagree with them.

[luzi-kun]

Don't know if everything you wrote is accurate but I have to admit that I never looked at Garrosh that way and that I will do so in the future. It makes things alot less painfull if thinking of him as warchief in cata (even as alliance player)

[Wildberry]

Don't know if everything you wrote is accurate but I have to admit that I never looked at Garrosh that way and that I will do so in the future. It makes things alot less painfull if thinking of him as warchief in cata (even as alliance player)

I did speculate a bit, but the info from pre bc was taken from the novel beyond the dark portal, everything else was taken from what we see in game, or from spoilers in cataclysm's case

[Tikaru]

Maybe it's because I haven't taken either of my Horde toons into ICC, but what did Garrosh do in the WotLK expansion? You know, other than just rage at everyone and everything? He talks about just killing everything with Saurfang, he starts a fight with King Chin in Dalaran, and argues with Thrall at ToC. Other than that, what did he do?

[lokiisgrim]

Maybe it's because I haven't taken either of my Horde toons into ICC, but what did Garrosh do in the WotLK expansion? You know, other than just rage at everyone and everything? He talks about just killing everything with Saurfang, he starts a fight with King Chin in Dalaran, and argues with Thrall at ToC. Other than that, what did he do?

He gave us a buff to make icc easier, other then that nothing.

[Wildberry]

Maybe it's because I haven't taken either of my Horde toons into ICC, but what did Garrosh do in the WotLK expansion? You know, other than just rage at everyone and everything? He talks about just killing everything with Saurfang, he starts a fight with King Chin in Dalaran, and argues with Thrall at ToC. Other than that, what did he do?

Well basically off the screen he's fighting alongside troops etc etc... but the main thing that happened in northrend was Saurfang's words sunk in, and he takes the words that saurfang says after we kill Deathbringer Saurfang, to heart (Honor, no matter how dire the battle, never forsake it.) other than that the only important thing that happened was that he was exposed to the Horde, because all he had heard before was tales about the old horde, which is part of the reason we see him acting the way he does in Borean Tundra.

---------- Post added 2010-09-13 at 04:12 AM ----------

He gave us a buff to make icc easier, other then that nothing.

in game nothing, in lore he fought alongside the Ashen Verdict against the Lich King's Forces.

[lokiisgrim]

Well basically off the screen he's fighting alongside troops etc etc... but the main thing that happened in northrend was Saurfang's words sunk in, and he takes the words that saurfang says after we kill Deathbringer Saurfang, to heart (Honor, no matter how dire the battle, never forsake it.) other than that the only important thing that happened was that he was exposed to the Horde, because all he had heard before was tales about the old horde, which is part of the reason we see him acting the way he does in Borean Tundra.

---------- Post added 2010-09-13 at 04:12 AM ----------



in game nothing, in lore he fought alongside the Ashen Verdict against the Lich King's Forces.

Give me proof to back that up, or your words are just speculation.

[turlyonlost to tirion wtf]

I did speculate a bit, but the info from pre bc was taken from the novel beyond the dark portal, everything else was taken from what we see in game, or from spoilers in cataclysm's case

yes but could you explain garrosh's memory lose of not remembering the person he called friend and the end of the nagrand chain and be exalted with mag and outstriders. he's still thinks your weak and a total jerk to you and doesent now who you are.

[Deleted]

Give me proof to back that up, or your words are just speculation.

in a quest, i think in stonetalon, he quotes saurgang with that very quote "honor.......forsake it"

[Wildberry]

Give me proof to back that up, or your words are just speculation.

If he wasn't fighting alongside the Ashen Verdict, where then did he hear saurfang's words (Honor...Never Forsake it) because he quoted that to Krom'Gar at the end of the stonetalon chain in cataclysm.

---------- Post added 2010-09-13 at 04:18 AM ----------

yes but could you explain garrosh's memory lose of not remembering the person he called friend and the end of the nagrand chain and be exalted with mag and outstriders. he's still thinks your weak and a total jerk to you and doesent now who you are.

well if you complete the quest the dialogue is a bit different.

[turlyonlost to tirion wtf]

Its never forsaken your dismissed that was must funny garrosh moment ever.

[lokiisgrim]

in a quest, i think in stonetalon, he quotes saurgang with that very quote "honor.......forsake it"

Was talking about the part where he fought along side the Ashen Verdict.

[turlyonlost to tirion wtf]

If he wasn't fighting alongside the Ashen Verdict, where then did he hear saurfang's words (Honor...Never Forsake it) because he quoted that to Krom'Gar at the end of the stonetalon chain in cataclysm.

---------- Post added 2010-09-13 at 04:18 AM ----------



well if you complete the quest the dialogue is a bit different.

Darn it i know i should of finshed nagrand before going to northrend o.0

[Tikaru]

If he wasn't fighting alongside the Ashen Verdict, where then did he hear saurfang's words (Honor...Never Forsake it) because he quoted that to Krom'Gar at the end of the stonetalon chain in cataclysm.

I would imagine word would travel fast about the final fate of the great son of Saurfang.

[HisDivineOrder]

From what I've seen, Garrosh's merits as leader are based mostly on his name and his capability in battle, though he has not led any charge in a major confrontation. He was given credit for Northrend, but he didn't lead any major battles there and Saurfang was the one who made the smart decisions that led to victories.

Without having all the story for Cata, I can't say for certain what he's learned. I've seen him denounce Sylvannas for using the plague and raising the dead, calling her a mini-Lich King. I've seen him throw an overlord off a bridge for killing innocents without thought of honor, quoting Saurfang as he did so. I've seen him send his goblin plane escort away from his heavy attack zep's to attack an Alliance ship convoy on its way to attack holdings controlled by the Twilight Hammer. A convoy that had specific instructions NOT to attack the Horde, but to BE ABSOLUTELY sure they made it to the TH and destroyed them. Subsequently, due to the loss of their plane escorts, dragons tore all Garrosh's zeps apart and sent all his troops crashing down from the skies, having accomplished nothing and lost a large portion of his forces when he himself has said resources are scarce and are the cause for war.

Garrosh had two very honorable conversations. He also demanded Sylvannas attack Gilneas despite the fact he must have known that in conventional warfare they'd be wiped out, doing to the Forsaken what Garathos did to the High Elves under Kael'thas in The Frozen Throne. He deliberately provokes the other leaders of the Horde to show he's the alpha male and none shall dare question his word or offer counsel because he doesn't need counsel. This leads to the death of Cairne. He invokes the name of Hellscream to remind everyone of his lineage, though he has no victories in battle to call his own, which is what probably led him to the disaster that destroyed a lot of his zep's. He nearly loses the loyalty of the trolls and the taurens, a stalwart member of the Horde for a very long time. How much longer will the Forsaken and the Blood Elves tolerate actions that do not benefit them?

With Thrall doing his business at the Eye, I do begin to wonder if we won't see Thrall return at some point later in the game and do a rematch of the fight between Thrall and Garrosh from the 3.0 patch of TBC that introduced the WOTLK talents, the Scourge Invasion event, and the Zombies. Thrall seemed to lose that fight, but the Lich King saved his life because he's Pro-Thrall. After his return from the Maelstrom, Thrall may have greater power and lament the divided Horde that has come about because of the young Hellscream. How could he not lament it? I don't think Thrall wanted Garrosh to alienate every Horde faction and I don't think, even when he was talking the troll leader down from leaving, he realized how eagerly Garrosh would run about, pissing every faction off but the orcs. Just imo. Based on that, I expect Garrosh to be a character that shows the Horde can be evil if led astray and Thrall's return will be made... an event.

Similar to the event I expect when the Dwarven king's curse is lifted, he emerges from his time as a statue, and he finds his traitor daughter and her Dark Iron infant son about to take the crown or cause civil war in his kingdom. I'm pretty sure he'll also have "an event" where he re-establishes himself. With a hammer in his daughter's face.

[Vladilena]

Well. I thought it was an excellent post.
Personally, I'm going to be proud to be a part of Garrosh's Horde.

[Fourty-two]

You know what they say when you ASSUME something. You only make an ASS out of U and ME.

There is a reason why alot of people see Garrosh as a badly written character. It's because most people only see him in-game causing fights and yelling a people. We go from him being: depressed in Outland, to challenging Thrall for leadership preWotLK, Angry in the Tundra, starting a fight with Varian in Dalaran, to more yelling at people, and then Warchief.

You can't blame people for not going on the internet and doing an in-depth research on his background character. Why do you think Blizz did an overhaul on his character in cata? It's because players didn't like him threw most of the game.

Sure some might see it as his character developing, but most players won't see it as such. All they see him making giant personallity changes. And, you can't blame them for it.

[TheSwissNavy]

Maybe it's because I haven't taken either of my Horde toons into ICC, but what did Garrosh do in the WotLK expansion? You know, other than just rage at everyone and everything? He talks about just killing everything with Saurfang, he starts a fight with King Chin in Dalaran, and argues with Thrall at ToC. Other than that, what did he do?

Garrosh is responsible for all of the Horde's actions in Northrend, he was the leader of the Horde war effort against the Lich King. (Not so much the forsaken forces.) Seeing as the Horde did pretty well against the undead it seems like he can manage a war well enough.