Cobra shot replacing Steady for Survival?

[Zaydin]

I was just looking over some of the hunter changes for Cataclysm, and started wondering, given that Cobra shot will do nature damage, and survival hunters get the Mastery bonus for +20% elemental damage, would Cobra shot become more attractive for survival hunters? That's what it seems like to me as a survival hunter myself.

[Derian]

From what I've seen, Cobra will definitely be superior to Steady for SV, given that it also extends the duration of Serpent Sting by 6 seconds, so you'd never need to refresh serpent.

[Fuger]

From what I've seen, Cobra will definitely be superior to Steady for SV, given that it also extends the duration of Serpent Sting by 6 seconds, so you'd never need to refresh serpent.

It also is increased in dmg from mastery.

[Zaydin]

It also is increased in dmg from mastery.

As I already acknowledged it did. So it looks like Survival will be focusing on cobra shot, and MM will be steady. BM will probably be either.

[ubergoose]

yes

[hellar]

^^^

[kaze950]

As I already acknowledged it did. So it looks like Survival will be focusing on cobra shot, and MM will be steady. BM will probably be either.

I think BM with be cobra, unless steady does a lot more damage. Having to not refresh serpent sting is nice.

[hellar]

i am really excited to raid with SV. although our 10 man might have a frost dk to provide 20% haste already so i might not be going SV unless it surpasses every other spec by a good amount

[frott]

Cobra Shot:
Deals weapon damage plus (276 + (RAP * 0.086)) in the form of Nature damage and increases the duration of your Serpent Sting on the target by 6 sec. Generates 9 Focus.

Steady Shot:
A steady shot that causes weapon damage plus RAP*0.1+280. Generates 9 Focus.

Glyph of Steady Shot:
Increases the damage dealt by Steady Shot by 10% when your target is afflicted with Serpent Sting.

Elemental Damage Mastery:
+20% elemental damage


so for 1000RAP:
cobra 362+(362*.2)= 434.4
steady 380+(380*.1)= 418

for 5000RAP
cobra 706+(706*.2)= 847.2
steady 780+(780*.1)= 858


Steady still scales better. All specs will use cobra to add time to serpent, then go back to steady. It all depends on if they have debuffs effect cobra as well. But if they did that, cobra/arcane/explosive/black/serpent would be godly stronger than aimed/steady/chim, etc... so i doubt that.

[Jackmoves]

Cobra Shot:
Deals weapon damage plus (276 + (RAP * 0.086)) in the form of Nature damage and increases the duration of your Serpent Sting on the target by 6 sec. Generates 9 Focus.

Steady Shot:
A steady shot that causes weapon damage plus RAP*0.1+280. Generates 9 Focus.

Glyph of Steady Shot:
Increases the damage dealt by Steady Shot by 10% when your target is afflicted with Serpent Sting.

Elemental Damage Mastery:
+20% elemental damage


so for 1000RAP:
cobra 362+(362*.2)= 434.4
steady 380+(380*.1)= 418

for 5000RAP
cobra 706+(706*.2)= 847.2
steady 780+(780*.1)= 858


Steady still scales better. All specs will use cobra to add time to serpent, then go back to steady. It all depends on if they have debuffs effect cobra as well. But if they did that, cobra/arcane/explosive/black/serpent would be godly stronger than aimed/steady/chim, etc... so i doubt that.

Steady Shot damage is mitagated by armor though? If Cobra deals Nature its spell and not mitaged by armor maybe it will still trumph steady shot?

[Dracodraco]

The reason Steady is going to be dominant over Cobra for MM, would be Piercing shots. Just saying.
Also, steady shot will be scaling with a multitude of buffs (mangle, phys dmg, sunders, etc) where cobra shot is only going to be CoE.

[frott]

Steady Shot damage is mitagated by armor though? If Cobra deals Nature its spell and not mitaged by armor maybe it will still trumph steady shot?

Well there's no baseline either way...

What if a mob has nature / spell resist?
Will spellpower debuffs be "better" than sunder armor?

It'll get figured out pretty quickly once everything is live, but it will be on a boss by boss case and since we have the ability to swap pets (sunder vs spellpower), once the pets change or become normalized we'll know what combos are better. just like now it's better to be surv on some fights and mm on others.

---------- Post added 2010-09-18 at 06:15 PM ----------

The reason Steady is going to be dominant over Cobra for MM, would be Piercing shots. Just saying.
Also, steady shot will be scaling with a multitude of buffs (mangle, phys dmg, sunders, etc) where cobra shot is only going to be CoE.

not really, piercing is generally overwritten by chimera as the strongest crit.

[Infs]

@frott. You obviously don't know how piercing shots works. It doesn't get "overwritten", it does get refreshed but the procs from every shot will finish their total duration.

[Paulosio]

Well there's no baseline either way...


not really, piercing is generally overwritten by chimera as the strongest crit.

Piercing shots don't work that way. You can't overwrite piercing shot ticks with a stronger crit. If you crit 3 times you will get the 30% extra damage from each of those crits ticking for 8 seconds from the time the respective crit landed. Landing a bigger crit will not cancel / overwrite your earlier piercing shot ticks.

The damage of piercing shots is cumulative / stacking.

[Gadirm]

@frott: first of, the glyph may change in cataclysm, Blizz already said that the glyphs will be looked over and they will recive a lot of changes. Secondly you name some thing about resistances, when it comes to bosses they have an innate spell resistance of 30% (i think that is the correct number).

Making calculations at this point is not the way to go since Beta isn't even on the final build, plus no one has the final numbers. It's like doing algebra like this: a+y=?

Just wait until the Beta is finalized imo, that goes for the OP as well, however he at least didn't try to support his pondering with math that will be obsolete in a few months.

[Vongimi]

I have a feeling they are gonna drop the "BM uses Cobra" and pick up "SV uses Cobra" and just keep BM with steady.

[MortalWombat]

I have a feeling they are gonna drop the "BM uses Cobra" and pick up "SV uses Cobra" and just keep BM with steady.

Maybe give BM its own shot, we could call it the "Chuck shot".

[Moddycss]

numbers are not done yet tho. they will be tweaking them before the release so the current numbers may not the the same as release

[frott]

@frott. You obviously don't know how piercing shots works. It doesn't get "overwritten", it does get refreshed but the procs from every shot will finish their total duration.

so if you crit for 10 and then for 10,000 you're telling me it won't be ticking at the 10,000? OK. It's rather irrelevant because chimera refreshes SS so you won't use cobra just to tack on time. Was unaware of what piercing did because I only noticed a single buff and coming from horribly broken priest "adds a regen" talent where it went from crits overwriting (the hot from getting crit for 100 would overwrite the hot from getting crit for 1,000) to being whichever was strongest is what you were stacking.




---------- Post added 2010-09-18 at 11:05 PM ----------

@frott: first of, the glyph may change in cataclysm, Blizz already said that the glyphs will be looked over and they will recive a lot of changes. Secondly you name some thing about resistances, when it comes to bosses they have an innate spell resistance of 30% (i think that is the correct number).

Making calculations at this point is not the way to go since Beta isn't even on the final build, plus no one has the final numbers. It's like doing algebra like this: a+y=?

Just wait until the Beta is finalized imo, that goes for the OP as well, however he at least didn't try to support his pondering with math that will be obsolete in a few months.

Just saying that's where it will be if you use what's in the game now.

there's no need to "ponder," either use the data we have now to make an assertion with the stance that it will probably change or don't.

---------- Post added 2010-09-18 at 11:07 PM ----------

I have a feeling they are gonna drop the "BM uses Cobra" and pick up "SV uses Cobra" and just keep BM with steady.

survival (again pardon me for using current data) has other debuffs to watch so it makes sense that their cobra would scale to the point that they'd not benefit from swapping back and forth between ss/cs just to increase duration. I can see BM using it sometimes to tack time onto serpent.

[Deleted]

Nope, it will be ticking for the 10 + 10 000, in other words, it'd tick for 10 010 x 0.3 = 3 003 damage.