Why do people forget heroics were hard back in the day?

[Sesshou]

talking heroics, not raids, i have screenies to prove i did heroics with 21k

Did I anywhere say you couldnt? NO. I said 21k is horrible gear for an 80 tank doing a heroic. My point is that if you tried it with that much and found it hard it doesn't mean that the instance was hard at all.

[Shadowviper]

Honestly it wasn't as hard as BC heroics but in the beginning Nexus *The elemental have to kill the orby thing boss* Was pretty rough for a healer. Gundrak *The first snake boss you couldn't just zerg him like you do now you had to have someone next to the healer to de-snake em. Occlus was ridiculous probably because people didn't know how to use the dragons yet. The Gauntlet in UP was tough. Loken you couldn't just stand there and eat the damage you had to do the line method if you guys still remember that. Hall of Stone the gauntlet there was annoying as crap and use to tear through healers mana. AN wow, that trash to the first boss made some tanks cry, and the second boss was where all tanks needed there trinket. So for a little bit heroics was pretty good until you got your 213/219, Then it got really easy. ToC5 was hard for the first 3 tries then was really simple, I have to say the only heroics that only new players will have problems with are the ICC 5 heroics and even those don't really compare to Shattered Halls or Shadow Lab as a whole. You needed some really good gear to be able to just thrash through those instances

[Sesshou]

Ulduar, ToC and ICC in blues?.....


Frakking leechers, carried everywhere. Rargh. /frothing rage

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2009/08/ungeared.html

Ulduar done in ALL blues. I dunno about the rest, but you should remove the Ulduar part from your comment because it makes you look like a fool.

[Lotharion]

Wrath Heroics were never hard.

The hardest, say a full clear of OK in i200 gear, was still only as difficult as Heroic Ramparts, or Mechanar, two of the easier heroics. We had nothing at the level of Shattered Halls, or Arcatraz, or MgT. HoR came close, but it's still just a retard check.

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2009/08/ungeared.html

Ulduar done in ALL blues. I dunno about the rest, but you should remove the Ulduar part from your comment because it makes you look like a fool.

People would probably say that's the worse thing about Wrath, but I would argue it's the best. All you have to be is GOOD and you can kill ANYTHING.

I'm fucking SICK of morons claiming you need to spend forever in a raid dungeon, or doing so themselves, makes you good. It DOESN'T anymore.

[Knuffelbert]

They weren't hard when they started. I instantly hit heroics with my first character (on of the first ones, so not 1-2 months after everyone had "gear") and all others ASAP. And I was the tank (pretty much only play them). They were not very easy, but absolutly nothing compared to Outlands (though I have done the same there)

[dahaliana]

Heroics were very easy AOE-fests from day one.

I just looked at my toon's achievement pane out of curiosity:

+Level 80! - 11.22.2008 (9 days after release)
+Timely Death: Defeat Loken in the Halls of Lightning on Heroic Difficulty in 2 minutes or less. - 11-22-2008
+Shatter Resistant: Defeat Volkhan in the Halls of Lightning on Heroic Difficulty without allowing him to shatter more than 4 Brittle Golems. - 11-22-2008
+Lightning Struck: Defeat General Bjarngrim in the Halls of Lightning on Heroic Difficulty while he has a Temporary Electrical Charge. - 11-22-2008

etc. etc. All achieved on the very first run ever of said instance. Heroics in WotLK were never, ever difficult.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-a...kspear&cn=Daha

[Mykk]

Cata instances / heroics wont be that hard if ur willing to bind interrupt and cc button and use it. Its not that hard to open ur eyes and play well. Players do things wrong and that way everything is hard and then they start QQ about it. If its impossible to kill then its too hard. If its killable then players should go and watch into mirror and think why they suck.

[ledger]

I started playing a death knight during this expansion, though quickly stopped. So I went on this Death Knight to figure out how hard things must have been (I was the tanker), and as far as my memory goes the heroics was surprisingly easy. Looking on the achievements, it seems like my memory serves me right.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ac...C3%A8dg%C3%A8r

Even getting the Hadranox Denied a week after dinging 80 (23.11-08) or 17 days after the launch of the expansion. I call easy.

[Deleted]

i hated occulus
damn nere impossible to pug

[BossManRoth]

Did I anywhere say you couldnt? NO. I said 21k is horrible gear for an 80 tank doing a heroic. My point is that if you tried it with that much and found it hard it doesn't mean that the instance was hard at all.

21k was ilvl 187/200 blues

[Winfernal]

You never had to move out of Loken's nova, people were healing through it with ease in 3.0. The HoS even was never hard, and if your dps were scrambling it would have to be becuase the tank was dead, get out of the giant laser once every 20 seconds does not make an event hard. The tank never had to move from pound, it never at any point one shotted a tank and even at that gear you had more than enough mana income to heal him back up. People ignored Kele's tomb all the time, especially on healers and just continued to nuke the boss, all of this remains true in 3.0. WOTLK heroics were NEVER hard, and people are complaining now because paladins are doing heroics by themselves and dps are tanking ICC heroics, and how fast the instance is done determines how many rooms you can pull at once. I don't see how in any way you could think it's not the base design of the instance. The mobs hit for 2k on tanks who back then had over 30k, the boss damage is non-existant, no mobs do anything of ANY particular danger, ANY boss mechanic can be healed through. We WERE farming it off the back, in pugs who were steamrolling it.

I got oneshotted if i didnt move out of Loken's nova, so yes i had to.

[Viertel]

Did HC's since day one I leveled my Shadow Priest. Your argument is invalid.

You played the mana battery class and basically were a walking mana pot with minimal DPS for your healer.

You got carried.

[Sesshou]

21k was ilvl 187/200 blues

No it wasn't. 22khp was tier 6. Compare the stam on a piece of tanking t6 to a piece of ilvl 187 tanking gear.

[Sylreick]

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...Tank-Gear-List

[Deleted]

You never had to move out of Loken's nova, people were healing through it with ease in 3.0. The HoS even was never hard, and if your dps were scrambling it would have to be becuase the tank was dead, get out of the giant laser once every 20 seconds does not make an event hard. The tank never had to move from pound, it never at any point one shotted a tank and even at that gear you had more than enough mana income to heal him back up. People ignored Kele's tomb all the time, especially on healers and just continued to nuke the boss, all of this remains true in 3.0. WOTLK heroics were NEVER hard, and people are complaining now because paladins are doing heroics by themselves and dps are tanking ICC heroics, and how fast the instance is done determines how many rooms you can pull at once. I don't see how in any way you could think it's not the base design of the instance. The mobs hit for 2k on tanks who back then had over 30k, the boss damage is non-existant, no mobs do anything of ANY particular danger, ANY boss mechanic can be healed through. We WERE farming it off the back, in pugs who were steamrolling it.

amen to that.

[Fahrenheit]

Heroics weren't hard at any point, in WotLK or TBC. A little CC from time to time does NOT make a heroic hard.

[zealous]

To all the haters and idiots raging at me:

Learn reading comprehension.

NOWHERE in my post did I say that heroics were hard. NOWHERE in my post did I say I was in any serious amount of blue items. ON THE CONTRARY I said that I had maybe 1-2 or none at all blue items at that time. THE POINT of that screen was to show that to have 30k+ hp you had to be in almost full epics and buffed by multiple classes.

The entirety of my post can be summed up to this:
1. It was NOT common or even possible for freshly dinged tanks to have 30k+ health. Or even tanks in a mix of normal/heroic dungeon gear for that matter.
2. While WotLK heroics couldn't be considered hard in the strict sense of the word, there were some challenges and dangers, which were later eliminated by raiding gear. In naxx 25 gear it was already mostly faceroll.

I challenge you to find any statements in my post (taken in context) that state anything beyond that.
The fail is in your posts, not mine.

P.S. Edited my screenshot so it wouldn't stretch the forum page but a bunch of people had already quoted it to the same effect x_x

[Tobyone]

The big thing about lich king heriocs, was they didn't scale well at all. Eventually all of the mechanics could be just healed through or tanked and generally ignored. Even the ones they released in major patches weren't all that hard. They required little CC, or a strategy for the boss more than kill him fast.

Blizzard needs to make the new heroic dungeons a challenge at all gear levels. That doesn't mean increasing damage by x amount, it means putting in mechanics that you have to deal with through strategy. Include % damage of total health abilities, so you still get hit hard. Have the trash require some CC, and not be able to pull more than one, maybe two groups at a time.

[Deleted]

Ulduar, ToC and ICC in blues?.....

/img
Frakking leechers, carried everywhere. Rargh. /frothing rage

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ht=undergeared

The project started by doing the ICC 5-man dungeons, then heroics, then followed the normal raid progression path, from Naxxramas to ICC, where we're currently at. In particular, we've cleared

* ICC heroics (including the dreaded Halls of Reflection)
* Naxxramas 10
* Ulduar 10 - 12/14
* Trial of the Crusader 10
* Onyxia 10
* ICC 10 - 8/12 (lower + rotface + festergut + blood prince council + dreamwalker)
* Ruby Sanctum 10 - 3/4

And for the 13/14 Ulduar http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2009/08/ungeared.html

WotLK was piss easy. Stop dreaming.

[Overtroll]

actually, Occulus was challenging, at the start of the expansion mounted fights being so NEW, not to mention all the casters that ignored all the defense of your tank(ever try dodging a spell?)
and this was with 30k hp tanks after buffs.

DTK first boss that did consume, omg ouch, dps was a lot lower back in the day, if he got up to 15 stacks of his buff or so he could 1 shot people with less than 20k hp with his aoe.

king dred also, mangling \ grevious bite, and the other one, on tanks that didnt have as much avoidance, they would almost always hit, then the bleed from the adds he spawns would get buffed by mangle, this was a time when tanks got nuked during the fear, a group without fearward \ war tank \ shama, were kind of screwed, that fight was hard.

remember when people actually had to run OUT of the frost bombs from mage lord orum? and the aoe he does when he teleports (2-4 times depending on dps) actually would kill people with 20k hp, unless they were topped off, but the frost bomb stacks pretty much prevented that, 3 ppl get hit by it, one would die - triage

healers going OOM on the gauntlet for Skadi in UP, people throwing harpoons at the wrong time, them despawning, etc. ohh and if you got hit by the frost breath you would die.

i could go on but this post is already TL-DR

in short: yes they were challenging, and no, it was not just loken, he is just the best example.



just to show -

heroic halls of lightning 12 - 30 - 2008
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-a...n=Steel+Legion

None of these were hard.Having to move out of the blue ground(and not even doing it fast) /losing a cast but otherwise roll your dick on the keyboard (because the boss has shit hp and hits like a pussy even when youre green geared)

Loken was the only hard boss because his mechanics were shady (noone knew what the lightning debuff did at the time)
If you had a druid or priest healer however you could just spread and go to town with the instant heals,he was only hard if you did it with paladin and slightly with a shaman.

By the way I finished all the heroics in less than ONE WEEK from release so I couldn't be outgearing them at the time.