Warrior PTR Rotation - Fury

[Jalynfein]

Nice thanks for these results giving me soem hope again.Wshould be interesting to see it work for myself and specially at 85 when we can actually have deep wounds aswell as fury. Just wondering how effective deep wounds will be later at 85 now when it seems crit will be quite low for along time. Guess I have to wait and see how well lots of haste will counter balance the stacking of deep wounds.

[SirTBone]

The Incite bug was fixed and we got an Enrage nerf. Will be interesting to see the new numbers after this.

[DirewolfX]

Re: Enrage uptime--I was playing around on the Beta a bit last night (12% version of enrage still) and I noticed that I have much higher enrage uptime with SMF on the 85 pre-made than I did on my level 80 TG warrior with 251-ish gear. Mechanically this would make sense, since Enrage isn't normalized to weapon speed and the 1Hers have much faster weapon speeds. On the other hand, I felt like the TG build had better rage generation, and I was able to use more heroic strikes.

So TG = more rage, more HS; SMF = more enrage, more RB? I haven't crunched any serious numbers, but has anyone compared TG to a SMF build on PTR?

[jho369]

Sadly there isn't a single warrior with good 1hd weapon...let alone 2 to test out. Not including the time and effort to find enchanters on PTR. I have a 1hder from 25 LK for pvp purpose so I can't really test out .

I'm assuming that SMF does seem to generates rage a lot more but the DMG would decrease a lot since it only procs with SLAM? If HS were to hit with both weapons like frost DK it would be an alternative. But hey, why go SMF when Shamans, rogues, DK share the same weapon, and sometimes hunters and not be unique. I think it's go down to the fact that 1. Hit harder or 2. Hit more for less...just like Enh sham that gem haste vs attack power.

---------- Post added 2010-09-25 at 07:34 PM ----------

Visko - Did you have the correct glyphs? Can you do a test on boss target instead without using DW but with sunders? I didn't have any correct glyphs except for HS but didn't read the changes and I was on Boss Dummy. Really appreciate it. Also, keep an eye on buffs that other players add to the boss. I tested mine in the Spaceship for less debuff.

Also, I remember reading it somewhere where 3x stacks of sunder isn't the only armor debuff, perhaps druids FF or something, someone enlighting me.

---------- Post added 2010-09-25 at 07:53 PM ----------

I'm reading your post and few other topics and the only thing that comes to my mind is that the period between 4.0 and Cataclysm will be absolutely horrible for warriors with the "removal" of DW, overhauling how character stats work and changes to stats on items.

I agree with you about removal of DW for now. My DW usually 2nd or 3rd highest DPS, and 22K+ dps warriors have it has their first...removing this will be tough.

[SirTBone]

You posted your new rotation regarding the incite fix, however, you didn't state what dps you were looking at with the new rotation. Do you remember off hand what kind of numbers you got comparatively?

[tet]

I'm assuming that SMF does seem to generates rage a lot more but the DMG would decrease a lot since it only procs with SLAM? If HS were to hit with both weapons like frost DK it would be an alternative. But hey, why go SMF when Shamans, rogues, DK share the same weapon, and sometimes hunters and not be unique. I think it's go down to the fact that 1. Hit harder or 2. Hit more for less...just like Enh sham that gem haste vs attack power.

Hunters, Rogues and Shamans (?) do not use STR 1 handers.

The reason Shamans stack haste is so that maelstorm stacks up faster, and if Maelstorm procs had a hidden cooldown I'm sure they wouldn't stack it.

[Freedom]

Wait... you're on the PTR? That means there is still considerable gear/rating inflation going on (hence why you can hard cap hit apparently at 80) so if you could try to "simulate" TG at 85 by dropping down to 164 hit or something more reasonable. I don't think we'll ever be able to hit the hard hit cap at 85 unless you reforge everything to +hit, which would be stupid, so that means your rage generation right now is still "higher than intended" under the new system.

Reforge back to something stupid, like parry or dodge, so that you go to 30-35% crit, 7% additional hit, ~12 total mastery and 10% haste, to better "simulate" heroics/partial raid geared 85 rage flow/rotation. You could even take some pieces off or put tank gear on to get those offensive stats to those levels.

[MildCore]

Yeah, after the changes I went back to testing and the most I could pull off was about 5.8k DPS... =/ Don't see why they feel a need to nerf us and buff others that are doing double what we're doing currently...

[SirTBone]

Yeah, after the changes I went back to testing and the most I could pull off was about 5.8k DPS... =/ Don't see why they feel a need to nerf us and buff others that are doing double what we're doing currently...

Technically they didn't nerf us. They just fixed a bug. However I do agree that they still need to give us some boost.

[fizikz]

1. Melee - 473 - 1.4mil dmg, 40%
2. BT - 132 - 674K dmg, 18.9%
3. RB - 152 - 575K dmg, 16.1%
4. HS - 68 - 505K dmg, 14.2%
5. Slam - 41 - 253K dmg, 7.1%
6. C.Bane- 62 - 81K dmg, 2.3%
7. HT - 7 - 35K dmg, 1.0%

noobish question probably: what is C.Bane?

[tet]

noobish question probably: what is C.Bane?

its chaos bane from his shadowmourne.

[blahssat]

I got shot down in this thread mmo-champion.com/threads/760496-PTR-Rage-Normalization-Hard-cap-hit-and-dodge-cap-Exp-then-stack-haste?p=8844525#post8844525 and apparently the OP of this thread confirmed my findings. More hits = more DPS. Rage normalization sucks.

[catablitz]

For some reason nobody mentioned that we and everybody else is balanced along raid buffs as well. Nobody also mentioned the expotential scale of strenght=attack power. Talents, glyphs and tr set boni come in mind here.

[jobdone]

Had a quick glance though this thread, and people are talking about using HS as apart of the rotation, but I'm on the ptr now and HS triggers its own 1.5 sec cd but does not activate the gcd.

So you could spam HS every time you do any other ability, if you have the rage that is, thus doesn't have to be part of any rotation (unless you intend to use it every 6 seconds due to incite).

I was testing this with Nighttime main hand and The Facelifter offhand (as they were the only 1 handers I had) and I found to never be raged starved, usally around 70+ all the time, dont have any addons working thou, so I don't know what dps I was doing.

[tet]

recount works well in the ptr, just install the latest version on your ptr folder and then select load out of date addons in the character selection screen.

[jho369]

SirTBone - From testing out hard cap hit and 390ish hit, there isn't much of a dps difference. Maybe 1-200 dps increase. The rotation didn't change at all except that I incorporated battle shout since it gives you 30 rage everytimes you use it so maybe the talent be worth it, it's up to you. I can't test with the gears I have to be efficient because you no longer required to use leather gears.

Max DPS increase however was over 1K (Peaked at 8.2K and stayed at 7.9K) with around 600 hit and 7.6-7.8K with 390ish hit (Remember that I had leather gears, wrong gems and glyphs)

The Plus thing about HS spam is that if you have enough Hit that your OH doesn't miss as much gives you a lot of rage, but doing this will make you lose about 250 haste and about 3-4% crit. Currently with the hardcap hit I'm at around 43% crit, 720 haste and 600 hit.

Overall, I don't think incite nerf really a nerf but a fixed, however, I still get up to 80% crit on HS so it's not too bad. Raid environment dmg will play in a bigger role with the rage normalization so I wouldn't give up just yet.

[SirTBone]

Hrmmm, I just tried it with 700 hit and 769 haste and could only pump out 5500 dps. I am only using dual H Cryptmakers so that is a difference but I am at a loss how there would be more than a 2k dps difference between you and me. Do you have a link to the spec you're using? It's kinda hard to mess it up with as watered down specs are now but there may be something different. The only other thing I can think of that may affect it so much was if you were able to do execute spam which would give you a nice haste boost.

Do you know if there were any extra debuffs on the dummy you were using? It was pretty sparce around the dummies when I tried this.

Also, despite the 700 hit I was messing around with I still had a 1.9% miss rate.

[blahssat]

SirTBone - From testing out hard cap hit and 390ish hit, there isn't much of a dps difference. Maybe 1-200 dps increase. The rotation didn't change at all except that I incorporated battle shout since it gives you 30 rage everytimes you use it so maybe the talent be worth it, it's up to you. I can't test with the gears I have to be efficient because you no longer required to use leather gears.

Max DPS increase however was over 1K (Peaked at 8.2K and stayed at 7.9K) with around 600 hit and 7.6-7.8K with 390ish hit (Remember that I had leather gears, wrong gems and glyphs)

The Plus thing about HS spam is that if you have enough Hit that your OH doesn't miss as much gives you a lot of rage, but doing this will make you lose about 250 haste and about 3-4% crit. Currently with the hardcap hit I'm at around 43% crit, 720 haste and 600 hit.

Overall, I don't think incite nerf really a nerf but a fixed, however, I still get up to 80% crit on HS so it's not too bad. Raid environment dmg will play in a bigger role with the rage normalization so I wouldn't give up just yet.

You sound misinformed. Heroic Strike/Cleave does not consume your next main hand autoattack. It's an instant attack with a 3 second cooldown. You are going to generate rage from your main hand and offhand, no matter the situation (aside from disarms)

[machop]

hey

i tested hard my fury warrior on PTR
this is what i noticed:

- we like more like rogues now, white damage is our main dmg now.
- hard capping hit - no.

currently im on 230hit
first of all more hit = more glancing blows too, so its not always full white dmg
second, we will get no chance to hardcap hit on lvl 85, so i prefer testing spec with similar amount of rage than i'll have later on higher level
third, missing white hits its only 15% of 40% of your all dps so its 6% of your total dps (6% less dps and less rage?)
4th, rage generatiion on mobs/party/raid is a lot better than on dummy, so basically i prefer haste+mastery than hit but maybe 230 is little to extreme

- haste is good and sweet for example herkuml war totem was giving me better dps than wispering fanged skull, besides when i grouped with frost dk (+10% meele haste buff) my dps went 1-1,2k up

- i decided to reforge to mastery (special attacks better scaling with buffs) (and regem to strenght, i got all best avaiable glyphs atm, and i'm able to pull 6k on dummy with average 264ilvl (Shadow Edge MH, 2x T10, DBW) gear but i still need to work with proper hs use (rage starving),

what is surprise, my rotation is quite smooth even with low hit
is my dps good or i need to train more/ reforge like author suggested?

edit:
i slighty changed reforging and now i have
hit 360
haste 500+
mastery (enrage damage +40%), which is (i think) best option for my rotation
crit 46%

[jho369]

You sound misinformed. Heroic Strike/Cleave does not consume your next main hand autoattack. It's an instant attack with a 3 second cooldown. You are going to generate rage from your main hand and offhand, no matter the situation (aside from disarms)

How did I sound misinformed...I never said HS uses MH dmg. I think you're confused about the part where rage normalization vs live rage generation, that's why warriors need hits to maintain rage and not rely on OH crit like live to max rage...

---------- Post added 2010-10-02 at 07:05 PM ----------

hey

i tested hard my fury warrior on PTR
this is what i noticed:

- we like more like rogues now, white damage is our main dmg now.
- hard capping hit - no.

currently im on 230hit
first of all more hit = more glancing blows too, so its not always full white dmg
second, we will get no chance to hardcap hit on lvl 85, so i prefer testing spec with similar amount of rage than i'll have later on higher level
third, missing white hits its only 15% of 40% of your all dps so its 6% of your total dps (6% less dps and less rage?)
4th, rage generatiion on mobs/party/raid is a lot better than on dummy, so basically i prefer haste+mastery than hit but maybe 230 is little to extreme

- haste is good and sweet for example herkuml war totem was giving me better dps than wispering fanged skull, besides when i grouped with frost dk (+10% meele haste buff) my dps went 1-1,2k up

- i decided to reforge to mastery (special attacks better scaling with buffs) (and regem to strenght, i got all best avaiable glyphs atm, and i'm able to pull 6k on dummy with average 264ilvl (Shadow Edge MH, 2x T10, DBW) gear but i still need to work with proper hs use (rage starving),

what is surprise, my rotation is quite smooth even with low hit
is my dps good or i need to train more/ reforge like author suggested?

edit:
i slighty changed reforging and now i have
hit 360
haste 500+
mastery (enrage damage +40%), which is (i think) best option for my rotation
crit 46%

If you think about it, you have berzerker rage...why reforge mastery? All attacks give a change on enrage. Enrage lasts about 2-3 rotations on RB and RB has a long CD. With only my 8%, enrage uptime is quite often. I probably notice once or twice while I didn't enrage while Berserker rage was on CD (And this happens when I used Berserker rage right after enrage...oops, so no oops, u should be fine)

If I misread that mastery give % dmg instead of % on proccing enrage...then it's my bad. But if it only increases your chance on proccing enrage, no need to get enrage mastery. I will double check when I get home from work

Haste indeed is good. Group with a Sham or Frost DK will improve your DPS by a lot, especially during Execution.