Don't support gold sellers.... here's why.

[Agallochh]

Eh. My guild leads GDKP runs every weekend. This is the way to make gold... Here's how it works for those who have never seen the term...

GDKP = Gold - Dragon Kill Points

There are a few different ways of doing this, but this is how my guild runs it.

Item prices:
Weapons: 750g starting bid
Armor: 500g starting bid
Trinket: 1000g starting bid
277 piece (heroic): 1250g starting bid
Tier Token: 1000g starting bid
Minimum bid increment: 250g

This list breaks down the starting bids for each type of item that drops and states that the lowest bid increment is at 250g. Meaning if you're going for Nibelung off Lady Deathwhisper, and it drops, you can big 750g for it, and anyone else in the raid (including people that can't use it) can raid that by 250/500/750/1000/1250/etc. The people that bid on items they can't use usually do so to "pad". Padding is when someone in your group (usually already geared and rich) will bid on the item purely with the intent of making the person who really needs it pay more. This is called capitalism.

The MasterLooter accepts the gold from people, trades the item, and tracks how much gold is made throughout the entire run using a GDKP Mod that you can download from www.curse.com.

Lastly, once the raid is done and over with, the MasterLooter takes all the gold made that run, divides it by 25 (or however many people are in teh raid) and distributes the money evenly. If you have to leave early, YOU DO NOT GET ANY SHARES.

Now generally when you're doing GDKP runs you're going to be carrying people, otherwise there wouldn't be anyone buying items and no money would be made. This requires that you have at least 11-13 people who you trust and who can carry people. Generally we never pug tanks, and try to pug only minimal healers. Usually 2 tanks, 3 heals, 7 dps. This solidifies that at least 7 of our DPS will be able to carry one of the DPSers EACH (especially since the 30% buff) and ensures a smooth run.

Generally these runs take about 3 hours and we do only Heroic: Lootship. I have seen Deathbringer's Will sell for 30k gold. I've seen DFO sell for 38k gold. The farthest a GDKP run of ours ever got was 11/12, and we usually get everything but Sindragosa every week. The most I have made for one GDKP run was 8940gold. In the end, this 3 hour run got me 9k gold, frost emblems, and reputation (although unneeded unless I'm on an alt).

By doing this every week for the past month, I have gone from 3k gold to 39k gold. I've never made money like this before. If you're in a guild with a pretty legit crew of 12-14 people and hopefully a 25M Kingslayer(the 277 items are where the cash is from) then you should definitely research GDKP a little bit and see the benefits it offers.

[MortalWombat]

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you, here. I'd buy it if you'd said you've had multiple GUILDMATES get banned because they bought gold and reported them, but... sorry. I don't buy the idea that you were actually FRIENDS with someone and still felt that it was the morally right thing to report them for buying gold in an online video game and have any effort they might have spent before or after that incident trivialized and destroyed.

If you honestly did that, they weren't your friends. Either that, or your priorities are so shamefully distorted that you believe the Terms of Use in an online video game are more important than your real life friendships.

In the future, perhaps you should choose your language a little better. Either you are making the entire incident up, the people in question were guildies that you decided to grief when you found out they were buying gold, or you are not someone that is loyal and trustworthy enough to have friends. As none of these options make you look good, I am forced to assume (for your benefit) that you misspoke in some way, and I have the wrong idea about this situation.

There is nothing wrong with reporting a friend that did something wrong. Friendship doesn't mean you turn around and look the other way when they break the rules in a game. Just like you would be in trouble if you knew your friend broke the law and didn't tell anyone about it.

If friendship to you is people letting others get away with stuff, then your idea of a friendship is morally wrong.

[Agallochh]

There is nothing wrong with reporting a friend that did something wrong. Friendship doesn't mean you turn around and look the other way when they break the rules in a game. Just like you would be in trouble if you knew your friend broke the law and didn't tell anyone about it.

If friendship to you is people letting others get away with stuff, then your idea of a friendship is morally wrong.

lol.

Take it into context though. My friend just bought gold on WoW. The only thing I'd do is ask him for some. He's my friend.. why would I want to not be able to play a video game with him because he bought gold? Am I going to get arrested? Or is my account going to get banned? Nope. My friends might... his account may be compromised and hacked, but I'm not going to report him. This is a video game. And friends are higher on my priority list than anything... so no, I'm not going to report one over buying gold.

[MortalWombat]

lol.

Take it into context though. My friend just bought gold on WoW. The only thing I'd do is ask him for some. He's my friend.. why would I want to not be able to play a video game with him because he bought gold? Am I going to get arrested? Or is my account going to get banned? Nope. My friends might... his account may be compromised and hacked, but I'm not going to report him. This is a video game. And friends are higher on my priority list than anything... so no, I'm not going to report one over buying gold.

Considering he probably didn't know those guys IRL, I feel it sounds silly to say "I value the friends I meet in the game more than the game." If your friend was doing the hack where his GCD becomes 1 second would you report him?

[Agallochh]

Considering he probably didn't know those guys IRL, I feel it sounds silly to say "I value the friends I meet in the game more than the game." If your friend was doing the hack where his GCD becomes 1 second would you report him?

The guy said "friends". I assumed RL friends. My "friends" in game are just people I play the game with. I probably wouldn't report them because honestly I don't care. Now a GCD hack is a different story. I wouldn't report him, but I also would request that he no longer raids with us because I wouldn't want that to lead to all of the players getting banned.

I play with my 2 roommates. If one of them bought gold, I wouldn't report him. Beyond that, I don't know how you can ever know if anyone bought gold unless they outright tell you, in which case i'm pretty sure it's going to be someone I've played with long enough or at least like enough not to report them. Plus, reporting takes time. I can't be bothered to type up a tattle-tell.

And here are some words about snitches from Mac Dre.

Put that E.T. finger up, you stooley
Don't tattletale, the number one ruley
You the jumpest, the boys, them people
Slipped in the game, sellin' toys to people
I avoid them people, don't ask me shit
The only law I break is in public, grip
My mouth zipped, I plead the 5th
And niggaz like you get pushed off a cliff

(Don't ask me shit)
I don't tell mayne
(I don't tell)
You can send me to jail mayne
(Don't ask me shit)
I won't tell mayne
(I won't tell)
Send me to jail mayne

[MortalWombat]

And here are some words about snitches from Mac Dre.

People like that can look down on those who tell the truth all they want, I don't care about people who think a reason like "Its uncool" is good enough to cover for others. '

And what would your reaction be if a guy said he sold gold and hacked accounts for it?

[Powerogue]

i dislike gold buyers for cheating the system. we're intended to get the gold to buy the items. also that they fund the scoundrels that fill trade chat with soulless bot spam

i dislike gold sellers for a straightforward reason, here's a very likely situation:
-MrGullible buys 10,000g for $10 from jkjkjk
-gold sellers hack MrGullible's account and loot it of all gold
-the next day spam can be heard "selling 10,000g $10 cheap free good safe yes?" from a player named mrglbllmrlg, a level one spam bot

[JeKv]

There is no excuse for buying gold. It's against the ToS and it's cheating.

Gold that you purchase is taken from stolen and compromised accounts, regardless of what the seller may tell you. You can justify it however you like, it doesn't change the fact that buying gold is something that actively hurts other players (By encouraging account theft), and goes against the Terms of Service you agree to by playing the game.

Don't have time to make gold, or don't enjoy doing it? Tough. That's a part of the game, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can break the rules and hurt other people. There are plenty of games to play out there, you're under no obligation to play this one. If you feel that making gold is integral to enjoying WoW and you aren't able to do it, then maybe WoW isn't the game for you.

Case closed. No excuses.

[Agallochh]

People like that can look down on those who tell the truth all they want, I don't care about people who think a reason like "Its uncool" is good enough to cover for others. '

And what would your reaction be if a guy said he sold gold and hacked accounts for it?

I've actually talked 1-on-1 to someone who spends a majority of their time hacking accounts, disenchanting items, and using the account to get gold to sell for money.

This guy in particular was very friendly. We had a pretty good conversation and I asked him how many accounts he hacks (usually a 1 or 2 a day, but he gets countless keyloggers out and has about 800 accounts currently which he hasn't touched yet). I also learned a little about how much money he actually makes. On a good day he can net $1,500++. To that, all I can say is touche. It's capitalism at it's finest. There's a demand for gold and he can supply it.

Illicit means or not, the dude probably makes more money in his trade than you or I while we spend 8-12 hours a day and still struggle to make ends-meat. And please, re-read my posts. I never once said that I condone buying or selling gold. I merely pointed out that I would not report players for it. Simply because if I was in their shoes I would be devastated to have spent... say, $50 for 15000g, to then have my account banned [which I've already spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on over the years (Character transfers, star pony, race changes, etc)].

[MortalWombat]

I've actually talked 1-on-1 to someone who spends a majority of their time hacking accounts, disenchanting items, and using the account to get gold to sell for money.

This guy in particular was very friendly. We had a pretty good conversation and I asked him how many accounts he hacks (usually a 1 or 2 a day, but he gets countless keyloggers out and has about 800 accounts currently which he hasn't touched yet). I also learned a little about how much money he actually makes. On a good day he can net $1,500++. To that, all I can say is touche. It's capitalism at it's finest. There's a demand for gold and he can supply it.

Illicit means or not, the dude probably makes more money in his trade than you or I while we spend 8-12 hours a day and still struggle to make ends-meat. And please, re-read my posts. I never once said that I condone buying or selling gold. I merely pointed out that I would not report players for it. Simply because if I was in their shoes I would be devastated to have spent... say, $50 for 15000g, to then have my account banned [which I've already spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on over the years (Character transfers, star pony, race changes, etc)].

Ya shocking isn't it that people who bend the rules make more money than most others right? Its easy to break rules when you don't have to deal with the people you're hurting.

And people who break the game rules accept that they may be banned, they don't think they're unbannable. If they get banned and try to cry then they're stupid simple as that.

[Agallochh]

And people who break the game rules accept that they may be banned, they don't think they're unbannable. If they get banned and try to cry then they're stupid simple as that.

To that I agree, but it can still be devastating when it actually happens to you. That can be said about anything anyone does with the "that can never happen to me" mentality.

"Out of 11 million players, they'd never single ME out because of this 25k gold I just bought."

Yeah right :P

[AlexTheGreat]

I bought gold one time, then they put an authenticator on my account while I was on vacation. I called blizzard to remove the authenticator while coming back from vacation, and I guess the hacker wasnt done with my account. I logged in to see 15k gold and my toon zoned into Mana-tombs, with a shit load of boes and crap in his bags. I slapped an authenticator on my account, and bam...sweet sweet profit

[Terkis]

I don't buy my meat from a guy who stole it from someone else.

Some pig, or cow, would have a word with you. They would, if they could talk and were alive.

Who am I kidding? *Goes back to eating burger*

[Kio]

No, don't buy gold because:

1) Gold sellers compromise accounts, vendor all gear, and ship the gold off - mailing it between numerous accounts to make it 'harder' to track (ie they launder it)

2) They will delete your toons and make their spam bots. Yeah, those toons "Ajlkjfdf" spamming in trade for their gold selling website? Someone's compromised account being hacked and manipulated, until its banned because of spamming. That's why a lot of times folks will try to re-acquire their account, only to have it banned by blizzard for suspicion of gold selling. This can be confusing for players who have been hacked, because of course they were not selling gold. But the people who hacked their account were. Even if 1000 people ignore the spam bots, it only takes 1 poor sap to go to their website and they move on to the next victim. Rinse, repeat.

3) Z-axis exploiting farmbots: They travel under the terrain, harvesting nodes. You can't always see them, but sometimes if you stand around a node in a remote place like say Storm Peaks, you'll see a toon "pop" up from under the terrain in an erratic fashion, and the node will disappear. They do this to avoid mobs and make harvesting nodes as quick as possible. It's the same exploit goldsellers used to spell their website's name with corpses in capital cities.

So in the end you can safely assume probably about 99% of all gold people buy online has been acquired through illicit means, and, more often than not, will simply lead to your own account being compromised.

Get an authenticator for your account, don't buy gold (its sooooo easy to get now at 80 for all your needs... ever hear of a GDKP run??). Also, I suggest No-Script if you run firefox. I can't speak for any particular Antivirus software, I just use AVG free.

You need to already have gold to get into a GDKP run.

[Agallochh]

You need to already have gold to get into a GDKP run.

Not if you or your guild leads them

[Terkis]

Also, I've managed to knock out quite a few of those Wintergrasp farmers on my mage. They usually wear absolutely no gear, and they die in half a blizzard. It's a LONG way DOWN! >: )

[yellowbiz]

I love gold sellers, they make the best in-game ads I've ever seen !

[jimlow]

speaking of gold sellers. Anybody see those guys that are floating in mid air in org? is there a good way to fuck with them? I've been using the train set that seems to mess them up a bit.

[Heltoray]

how can people still not have gold?

dunno, but whoever buys gold and gets hacked afterwards does not in the slightest deserve to get his stuff restored.
I don't get any money from my insurance when I give my car keys to a stranger, or do you?!

[Abandon]

So Blizzard's TOS is holy doctrine now? They have the final say on what is wrong/right and what is moral/immoral?

Nah

No, but they get to choose what they do with their game, especially since they own your account.