PvP Gear: No Requirements?

[Brezals]

And why is there no struggle to become good? Bads will still get killed. A lot. Nothing will change.

this, a bad will still die even if he got the same gear as a hardcore pvp.

[haxartus]

I don't understand why people think that the gear will be free since it will have no rating requirement. In TBC there were some 1600-1700 rated teams, and it took them the whole arena season to gain the points for a weapon or 2 items from the set.
And keep in mind that currently every pvp epic requires conquest points. Not only the set and the weapons.

[Snowulf]

There IS a struggle to become good, you get better looking versions of the armor +mounts/tabards... l2read blue posts.

[Deleted]

Figure this out, a player want's to start playing in arena and needs some PvP gear to do that, how is he supposed to start?
I think that it's good to have a starting point with somewhat competitive gear so that it's possible to begin the adventure in Arenas.
I mean, noone is so good at arena that you don't need any PvP gear to tart with, you'll get squashed in a second in there.
So, let there be a starting point so people can get involved in arenas and reward the excellent players with shinies.

[Herecius]

The high end stuff will still require high ratings, and moreover, only the pros will get the real titles. But as others have pointed out, gear is near to meaningless in PvP. It helps some, but it almost always comes down to skill. The only time gear is TRULY a factor is when it is two of the very best players matched against each other.

[George Costanza]

You require rating for the "best" pvp gear. A rating based on either your rated bg Rating or arena rating.

[Deleted]

OP plays PvP for gear. Thats where he is going wrong.

Warcraft PvP will take a turn to the better, ive even convinced my bro to stop playing Guild Wars for PvP and level a toon now that the playing field will be equal like any other good PvP game.

[bw13187]

All this nonsense about highly skilled under geared players being crushed down by the weight of the stagnant old regime of PVPers is just that, nonsense.

I have two characters at the 2200+ level. 3 more at 1900+. Each time I was a high skilled under geared 80 and each time I worked my way up and got full PVP gear with them and was able to enjoy competitive high-end arena. I'm not going to be appearing in any MLG tournaments or whatever any time soon but I feel I'm able to enjoy PVP a few steps above your average mouth breather running around BGs. If you're good you're good, youll grind the entry gear(blizz made it plenty easy), and make it as far as you can make it.

At 2k+ everyone is in full wrathful. Some may not have their t2 wep yet. Some may still be in Relentless shoulders or whatever but by and large it's all the same. So yeah, you can't blame your arena losses on having a 264 wep instead of a 277, or whatever. I mean it helps but it isn't the be-all end-all. There is no glass ceiling of PVP gear. Most good players I know have multiple characters with their t2 wep.

It's not so much that skill overcomes gear, it's that people who are skilled can do more once they grab the basic relentless/offpiece wrathful stuff blizzard practically gift wraps for you. They win games and turn it into wrathful and then bam they're at 2k fighting shadowmourne TSG's who still have relentless shoulders because they don't know wtf they're doing. Sorry, tangent.

[Zarghol]

In one way, I see OP's point. When you're not aiming for Glad, the milestones for you is the rating granting you nice, new gear. On the other hand, being crushed over and over again when you start out because you have no resil, then at 1790 being barely beaten by full wrathfuls in your relentless gear isn't fun, it's frustrating. Skills considered, it still favors those playing at the start when all the top players have equal gear and makes it a lot harder for those starting i.e. a month ago. Also, what's the fun in beating lower-geared players? Easy win = fun? There's three PvP scenarios I can think of as fun.

1. Beating better geared players. Okay, it often means they did something wrong, you got a lucky streak, they were plain bad or started before you and thus have had a long time to get their gear, but it's still fun. Outskilling someone that by gearwhorestandards meanse they're better is cool. They have an advantage in having more health, more damage reduction and more damage than you, but you took them down first.
2. Beating equal geared players. You've got more skills, props.
3. Oneshotting lowgeared players. Hey, it's fun. Won't be happening in cata tho, and it's prolly for the best, because it really sucks to be on the receiving end.

Notice how neither of these include "outgearing someone honestly trying to climb the ladder and roflstomp him because I have 5K more HP, 5% more damage reduction and hits for more". That's why the change is good.

[Deleted]

So you actually think that there is something wrong with fighting against people with the same gear making skill determine even more the result? And arenas? REALLY? ARENAS? I have a Hunter and Rogue frined and I play as a Retribution Paladin. We can't go arenas because it's not a FotM team. Arenas are broken because of FotM teams.

[Borigrad]

pvp was already ruined with the illusion of balance we call resilience back in patch 2.2 or 2.3 one of those.

so people are now on equal playing fields gearwise, isn't that a good thing, why should someone who joins arena late be gimped by having to fight teams thats are fully geared, and keep losing making it harder to earn. I'm sorry but this is a change for the better less emphasis rank and my emphasis on skill, when everyone has access to the same gear it becomes the intelligent who make the winning choices.

[Deleted]

As someone who has a T2 weapon I like the change. I never understood the point in making PvP imbalanced by the accessibility of gear. How is it fair? The powerful continue to stay more powerful as a result of the current system. How are new players or characters able to compete on skill when the system is so based around obtaining the gear.

this is it!

[chuck123]

you can find full wrathful people in the 1k brackets while you grind your way up already, which shows that level requirements are as useful now, as they will be wo any requirement.

Point beeing, if you get certain lvls, you get achievments and if you get glad you even get a title/mount and whatnot (titles also for rivals aso).

So this is all about "OMG, so got the same gear i had to work for ages to get it in <insert shorter timespan> THATS UNFAIR"

By this definition, we can also say that its unfair to let any >lvl60 person enter MC/BWL/AQ and whatnot for that matter, since you can farm your tiers or whatever you are preccious for, easier as 80.


And its not a question of casuals winning. If you are good, you can roflstomp them in their full xxxful glad set in blues.
If you are bad, then be glad, you now got one excuse more why you suck.
Look that last sentence is not personal against you, its just a general oppinion about whining over gear that can be obtained.
Its an evolving game and items, you will work for hard now, will be easier to get later by someone else.
If you play for gear, you certainly have not really grasped the concept of an mmo. EVERY ITEM, will be more or less useless at a certain point as the game moves on. This is a GAME and games are either for fun (can include competition, but on an amateur level*) or for a professional, who earns money with it.

If you are the latter, it wont matter for you.
If you are the first, gear doesnt hinder you from competing or having fun.


*Amateursports = Sports you do not earn money with, you might get some pricemoney once in a while maybe, but you are not earning your living with it.

[Buckwald]

i love ohw everyone commenting is probly some 1800 rated baddie OMFG GEAR SHOWS NOTHING DURRRRRRR

One of the most mature responses to any arguement here on MMO-Champion. Especially the "DURRRRRRR" part. Just brilliant. Man, if I was a mod I would ban you so hard that it would force you to make another User name and make a thread about how all the Mods are Alliance Fanbois and abuse their power. But, unfortunately, I'm not. So, I'll just give you one good solid /facepalm.

OT: As said many times before, removing the rating needed levels the playing field. If you are really as good as you say you are, Mr. OP, you won't need the gear to win.

[chuck123]

Another note:
Example: You play in a football/soccer( for the americanos), with a bunch of friends in an Amateurleague. You pay for your shirts, for your shoes and for your other accessories you need to be able to play.

One day, a new team starts in your league and one of them guys is fairly rich, so he sponsors his whole team the full stock of stuff they need and also, whenever they win, they get a free weekend in a spa.


Now you can cry out that this is unfair as you had to pay for your own shit OR you can decide to suck it up and maybe even play harder/better to show them guys how much better you are with your anger as fuel.


Your call, but i know for sure that crying doesn't work for me, since the age of 1 or 2.

[tekoix]

First off, your an idiot.

Just because some people don't want to play 400+ games in 2's or 3's makes them casual? Maybe some people only pvp for fun and care less about their gear.

Honestly, this no rating thing means nothing, in a BG you should dominate anyone since you supposedly know what your doing.

[babylon]

i agree with the statement, that gear shouldnt be needed for skilled player to win against weakest player

however i do think that effort should be rewarded somehow. and just killing weaker player is not a reward enough. its like making extra boss dropping/giving nothing (not even a killing achievement) - sure it might be fun to kill it once/twice, to check yourself, but thats it, why to kill it again.
if someone is a great pvp player and is used to fight with teams on very high levels, then yeah, this might be fun itself but if someone is new to the game/pvp aspects of the game, how pvp, as one of not many not-rewarding activities in wow, might seem any attractive?

how about, instead of fancier gear, maybe giving best pvp players some new fancy titles or mounts or funky items? (like some teleporting-to-capital 1h cd trinket?)

sorry if im repeating someones idea, new here and not familiar with older topics yet

[Googolplex]

Where does it say that these "casuals" will kick your arse just because they get the same gear ? Nowhere...

The better player will still win, which is as it should be, it shouldn't be decided by gear.

I guessing you are just angry you have to fight people on even terms in BGs, instead of facerolling them with Gladiator outfits.

[Eixel]

pvp is about skill shitties will be shitties and good players stay on top only people who complain about this are the ones who need gear to carry them. this changes nothing.

this

[Shyzhi]

Im happy i can get things from Bgs now (instead of 5tiers down crap stuff) i dont like arena never have, I find it repetative and boring. I like BGs as its where i well.. grew up :P back in vanilla when i got General on my warrior and Commander on my rogue, i loved it! getting the titles to earn more gear and so on. I still believe arena ruined pvp when it came out, 1min queues and so no one was doing world pvp just dry humping the arena masters leg for there next fix. I hope cata brings BRM world pvp back and stuff, Ganking in BRM, Sillithus and EPL as my rogue was the best!