4th HP and its effect on Ret Rotation

[Simplistic]

The addition of the 4th HP overflow has some weird implications for our rotation.

It looks like it will only store the overflow on a DP HP generator, rather than CS. That is, crusader strike won't generate a 4th holy power. So the idea of the CS(1) > filler (2) > filler (3) > CS (4) > TV rotation is out.

Instead, I'm wondering if a rotation like this might be effective:

CS(1) > filler(2) > filler > CS (3) > filler(4) > TV(-3 +1) > CS(3) > filler (4) > TV (-3 +1) and so on and so forth

how valuable will it be to push back a TV after a CS that gives a 3rd HP for a DP filler?

[Ronark]

You don't bank on that scenario happening.

Stick to Inq > 3HP TV > CS > Exo > Judge > HW > HoW > Cons

[Requital]

You don't bank on that scenario happening.

Stick to Inq > 3HP TV > CS > Exo > Judge > HW > HoW > Cons

All but the cons can't build a rotation around it since it's no longer intended to be used in a single target scenario.

[Ronark]

All but the cons can't build a rotation around it since it's no longer intended to be used in a single target scenario.

Using Cons with >50% mana is more DPS than a wasted GCD.

[Elovan]

The addition of the 4th HP overflow has some weird implications for our rotation.

It looks like it will only store the overflow on a DP HP generator, rather than CS. That is, crusader strike won't generate a 4th holy power. So the idea of the CS(1) > filler (2) > filler (3) > CS (4) > TV rotation is out.

Instead, I'm wondering if a rotation like this might be effective:

CS(1) > filler(2) > filler > CS (3) > filler(4) > TV(-3 +1) > CS(3) > filler (4) > TV (-3 +1) and so on and so forth

how valuable will it be to push back a TV after a CS that gives a 3rd HP for a DP filler?

I honestly don't see how it could matter, if you switch TV and the filler you end up with the exact same damage and Holy Power. Plus you can't guarantee which fillers will proc Divine Purpose. The only remotely reasonable point in delaying TV for a filler would be to maybe avoid cooldown clashes, but even that doesn't seem like it would change it.

[Ronark]

But you will never have that free gcd ;p
And about that exorcism, that only counts if it procs, right?

I have a few times on the dummy; Yes.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

I have a few times on the dummy; Yes.

I'm uncertain about this.

Even with Judgement proccing DP, is it worth it for the potential damage lost in a consecration? You'll have to alternate to keep JotP/mana going, but when those aren't a priority, wouldn't consecration be better if its damage is higher by a significant margin?

What I'm seeing, is that with a good amount of haste, it's fairly easy to get your CS cooldown close to 3 seconds.

I usually go CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill

If I hit 3 HP, I use that instead of a filler, the only time I wind up in the weeds with my CS cooldown is if my first filler doesn't proc DP, but my second does, meaning it's CS1, Fill1, CS2, Fill3, TV0. At this point, I've wasted a CS cooldown, but not HP.

I'll need to run some numbers to see if it's more wasteful to hit CS and waste the HP, or more wasteful to hit TV early and waste 1.5 seconds of CS's uptime.

[Ronark]

I'm uncertain about this.

Even with Judgement proccing DP, is it worth it for the potential damage lost in a consecration? You'll have to alternate to keep JotP/mana going, but when those aren't a priority, wouldn't consecration be better if its damage is higher by a significant margin?

What I'm seeing, is that with a good amount of haste, it's fairly easy to get your CS cooldown close to 3 seconds.

I usually go CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill, CS, Fill

If I hit 3 HP, I use that instead of a filler, the only time I wind up in the weeds with my CS cooldown is if my first filler doesn't proc DP, but my second does, meaning it's CS1, Fill1, CS2, Fill3, TV0. At this point, I've wasted a CS cooldown, but not HP.

I'll need to run some numbers to see if it's more wasteful to hit CS and waste the HP, or more wasteful to hit TV early and waste 1.5 seconds of CS's uptime.

I doubt it when you first enter a raid, that you'll have enough haste+buffs to bring CS to 3 seconds- With JotP's 9% on the PTR I am sitting at a 3.54 second CS cooldown. If both Judgement and HW are on cooldown, there is no repercussion from hitting Consecration- UNLESS you are sitting at ~46% mana (since it will bring your mana pool to a very low level).

Even if you factor in the GCD of about 1.2 seconds (not 100% sure, don't want to look right now), you will have ample time to catch a AoW proc- Moreso since it procs off of White swings, you can take a quick gauge at the swing timer to see if you would clip it with the GCD from Consecration.

[WhiteTiger]

Honestly I think ret is too random to really map out the best rotation. You have your spells of various importance, but some of them proc randomly or at random intervals. I've gone 30 seconds without a single exorcism proc, while I've proced our mastery ability 3 swings in a row. There may have been a white swing between or two but not a serious exageration. My point is I would be more curious of a run down of the numbers, which spells are more damage to have a better idea of which buttons to hit first if I have choices.

Crusader Strike
Templar's Verdict
Judgement
Exorcism
Holy Wrath

being the primary abilities of course, Inquisition ideally you should always have up.

[Nikoll]

honestly, i can see that being viable. say i CS and now i have three holy power, but judge just came off cd. would it not make more sense to judge, TV, restart the "rotation"? helps judge ECD and i would have simply have judged right after the tv anyway.